I have several openly gay friends who work for Chick-Fil-A. Some are now mangers. Companies with political ties is nothing new. When I was younger I worked at Wal-Mart and we had to watch an anti-union video. T-Mobile made it no secret they were liberal. I worked a non profit that was funded through the city with tax dollars, and it was one of the most liberal places i worked, aside from when i worked for the federal government and we told/asked to attend anti bush protest and help out liberal charities and organizations. some places hide it some places don't. if you wanna get upset at every bit of politicing companies do, then you will find that a problem with most places. In fact here is a site you can use to see which way companies have given money.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby I have several openly gay friends who work for Chick-Fil-A. Some are now mangers. Companies with political ties is nothing new. When I was younger I worked at Wal-Mart and we had to watch an anti-union video. T-Mobile made it no secret they were liberal. I worked a non profit that was funded through the city with tax dollars, and it was one of the most liberal places i worked, aside from when i worked for the federal government and we told/asked to attend anti bush protest and help out liberal charities and organizations. some places hide it some places don't. if you wanna get upset at every bit of politicing companies do, then you will find that a problem with most places. In fact here is a site you can use to see which way companies have given money.

the company I work for, International Paper, it's CEO is documented as a big contributor to the Republican party... no surprise there as this company would fistfuck a puppy to either make a profit or fuck over its employees, or both at once.

Posted by Samurai the company I work for, International Paper, it's CEO is documented as a big contributor to the Republican party... no surprise there as this company would fistfuck a puppy to either make a profit or fuck over its employees, or both at once.

at least your company is still in the states...all of my in laws lost their jobs when Cannon Towels left Kannapolis(a town named after Cannon) and the city almost died.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby at least your company is still in the states...all of my in laws lost their jobs when Cannon Towels left Kannapolis(a town named after Cannon) and the city almost died.

oh no no, big homie... International Paper has invested BIG TIME in plants in Russia, Brazil and now, of course, China. Reason being, of course, is cheaper labor, less environmental concerns and favorable incentives offered by the host country.

Where I work, we make a very expensive type of paper that goes for big $$$. What makes the paper so good is the wood that it's made out of. Northern hardwood makes a kick ass paper... For about 4 or 5 years, IP has been trying to figure out how to make it overseas. Why? Ticonderoga Mill is the smallest mill IP operates and it's the highest cost (energy... Kraft process mills require a powerhouse on site with a recovery and power boiler... #6 fuel oil is a bit expensive now and it has to come in via truck from the Port Of Albany over 100 miles away instead of up the lake via barge) mill they operate. The only thing that keeps us running is the paper quality and the fact that we do turn a profit even though the place is falling apart.

The IP/Dr Evil master plan was to run this paper in Brazil at a new mill they just built, and close us, but they couldn't make the recipe work with eucalyptus trees, so we're still there. As soon as they can make it work in Russia, China or Brazil, yours truly will be rocking the unemployment line. They've already closed so many mills in the US in the past 5 years, its scary.

Posted by Soldat Btw, calling the US a "near Theocracy" is borderline paranoia. Who give a flying fuck they put a stone ten commandments at a courthouse?

The fact that this happened, and no one would do anything about it points to "near theocracy"

Adding "under god" to the pledge. Swearing on a bible for everything?

Do you think that anyone claiming to not believe in god can seek higher office in the USA?

The ten commandments are also a poor excuse for moral direction.

Bush invaded Iraq and actually said god told him to.

THE-OC-RA-CY. Would give iran a run for it's money.

They stone people for adultery, westboro would happily do that to gays. You execute retarded people in texas - an eye for an eye.

Posted by Soldat When they start prosecuting people for worshiping a false idol let me know, until then worry about more important things.

False idols? Like jesus?

Posted by tekriter The ten commandments are also a poor excuse for moral direction.

Can you explain this?

I am not Christian, but I can not understand how a person who lives by these 10 guidelines is exercising "a poor excuse for moral direction"?

Last time I checked... NOt stealing and committing adultery etc was exactly what good moral direction should be.

Just sayin'

By itself, it is an extremely anemic basis for ethical behavior, and in 10 bullet points, really only gets across about 5 practical rules, which all really could have been summed up in a couple of words.

Granted, but to call it a poor excuse for moral direction is pretty over the top.

It is. If that is what you call your primary source of moral direction, then you are a sad sack of shit.

Just so I can be sure I'm not missing the context of that statement...

Are you that saying anyone who believes in the 10 commandments is a "sad sack of shit"?

No, I am saying that if one were to use the 10 commandments as the sole basis from which to build a system of morality and ethics, then that person would be a sad sack of shit.

But, no such person exists, so the point is moot.

If you want to be all Biblical about it, Jesus said they weren't all that, too.

Ahhhh ok gotcha, and I DO agree with that 100%

I was confused because that did not seem like something that you would say. Out of character.

Posted by maypost Ahhhh ok gotcha, and I DO agree with that 100% I was confused because that did not seem like something that you would say. Out of character.

Just what I would expect from a commie jew fag.

THAT's the MM I missed!


ETA - Just because I like banging dudes, does not make me a commie.

Posted by tekriter The fact that this happened, and no one would do anything about it points to "near theocracy"

No, it points to the fact most of the world has better things to do than cry about a stone copy of the ten commandments. I really fail to see how it is such an offensive and evil thing.

Posted by tekriter Adding "under god" to the pledge.

The historical context was that we added it to show we were not "Godless Communists" like the USSR. If you don't believe in in who cares?

Posted by tekriter Swearing on a bible for everything?

Thats more a tradition and not part of law. You dont actually swear on a Bible in court.

Posted by tekriter Do you think that anyone claiming to not believe in god can seek higher office in the USA?

You mean like Pete Stark?

Posted by tekriter The ten commandments are also a poor excuse for moral direction.

How do you figure?

Posted by tekriter Bush invaded Iraq and actually said god told him to.

You make it sound like Bush said "God told me to invade Iraq" and the US people went "Well fuck, lets get on that then!". Don't be an idiot and try to use a stupid Bush-ism to make it seem we went to war for god. The economic and personal reasons the Administration went to war and the "WMD" bill of goods used to get public support is well established

Posted by tekriter THE-OC-RA-CY. Would give iran a run for it's money.

Yeah, no. Read a book.

Posted by tekriter They stone people for adultery, westboro would happily do that to gays. You execute retarded people in texas - an eye for an eye.

They stone people by law in Iran, thats a bit different than what a universally despised group of inbreds "would" do if they had the chance.

Yeah, the debateably "retarded" guy, James Lee Clark, that Texas executed. Turns out he was a career criminal pretty much. He was executed because he and an accomplice murdered a 16 year old boy and then raped and executed a 17 year old girl. Yeah, fuck him, he should have been drawn and quartered.

Posted by tekriter False idols? Like jesus?

Oooooohhh, your sooo good at baiting.

Posted by maypost Can you explain this? I am not Christian, but I can not understand how a person who lives by these 10 guidelines is exercising "a poor excuse for moral direction"? Last time I checked... NOt stealing and committing adultery etc was exactly what good moral direction should be. Just sayin'

The ten commandments are not exactly the result of our best wisdom. (nor are they even consistent from one chapter to another)

Morally they lose more ground when the part that many christians ignore is made plain, the punishments that are well spelled out in the text.

Take the lords name in vain, death goddammit. Leviticus 24:16

Work on the sabbath? Death. Exodus 31:15

Cursing one's mom or pop? Death. 21:17

Adultery? Death. Leviticus 20:10

Hardly seems the highest moral ground now, does it?

Steal, from the original translation, means people, and more specifically people that you are not entitled to enslave.

Thou shall not kill? But some people need killing. The ultra right wing x-tians here love the death penalty and the ten commandments. Can't have both.

What direction do the commandments give on the complicated matters of euthanasia? Assisted suicide? Justifiable homicide in defence of others?




The first four commandments have NOTHING to do with morality. They just forbid other religions. Something we now know to be immoral. Look at the US constitution or the Canadian Charter of rights.

How are these useful in anyway in navigating the complex moral challenges of modern civilization?

5-9 are somewhat moralistic - but how many people abstained from killing or adulterating because of them? How many of these prohibitions are found across religions and cultures anyway? How many of them conflict with other teachings in the bible?

Even primates with no tablets demonstrate aversion to some of these behaviors. None require belief in a magical deity to know that murder is usually wrong.

The last one - with everything we know about the universe - do we need to have a rule against coveting livestock carved in stone? How does this help us navigate the tricky ethical waters of cloning?


"If you think that it would be impossible to improve upon the Ten Commandments as a statement of morality, you really owe it to yourself to read some other scriptures. Once again, we need look no further than the Jains: Mahavira, the Jain patriarch, surpassed the morality of the Bible with a single sentence: "Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being." Imagine how different our world might be if the Bible contained this as its central precept. Christians have abused, oppressed, enslaved, insulted, tormented, tortured, and killed people in the name of God for centuries, on the basis of a theologically defensible reading of the Bible. It is impossible to behave this way by adhering to the principles of Jainism. How, then, can you argue that the Bible provides the clearest statement of morality the world has ever seen?"

Sam Harris

Now you are just grasping.

You can pull up all the antiquated facts you like... it's moot, and you know it. By your logic, because some fanatics 1000+ years ago killed in the name of god, that makes everything in the bible utter crap... But religious people are the small minded ones, right?

Bottom line - Respect your parents, dont lie, dont cheat, dont kill, stay true to your faith. All of these sum up the 10 commandments and people who truly live by that tend to be good, moral people.

And I was able to get my point across without a massive TL;DR

Posted by maypost Bottom line - Respect your parents, dont lie, dont cheat, dont kill, stay true to your faith. All of these sum up the 10 commandments and people who truly live by that tend to be good, moral people.

And I'm just saying that people who live by the simple a posteriori realization that "Respect others" handles 95% of good ethics are in a lot better shape than someone who tries to lead their life based on some incoherent principles about livestock.

At the end of the day the institutions may be misguided but the individual people and churches tend to do a lot of good. I don't think the church takes care of the downtrodden, elderly, sick, homeless, etc because they are evil. And they spend far more than any gov't handouts received if that is what anyone was thinking.

Jesus, who a lot of scholars agree existed (Google historical Jesus), was pretty ahead of his time with a message of acceptance, peace and love. A lot of the Bible may be bolted on bullshit but the new testament is kind of about that guy.

Posted by CatalogOfCulture At the end of the day the institutions may be misguided but the individual people and churches tend to do a lot of good. I don't think the church takes care of the downtrodden, elderly, sick, homeless, etc because they are evil. And they spend far more than any gov't handouts received if that is what anyone was thinking. Jesus, who a lot of scholars agree existed (Google historical Jesus), was pretty ahead of his time with a message of acceptance, peace and love. A lot of the Bible may be bolted on bullshit but the new testament is kind of about that guy.

The New Testament is mainly about Paul's opinions, who would of course be institutionalized today.