Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby big·ot·ry    [big-uh-tree] Show IPA –noun, plural -ries. 1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own. 2. the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot. See images of bigotry Origin: 1665–75; bigot + -ry, formation parallel to French bigoterie —Synonyms 1. narrow-mindedness, bias, discrimination. I dont see any mention of it being exclusive to those that are religious....

1re·li·gious adj \ri-ˈli-jəs\
Definition of RELIGIOUS

1: relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity <a religious person> <religious attitudes>
2: of, relating to, or devoted to religious beliefs or observances <joined a religious order>
3a : scrupulously and conscientiously faithful
3b : fervent, zealous
— re·li·gious·ly adverb
— re·li·gious·ness noun


So, strict, zealous and fervent devotion to a specific set of beliefs about reality: Beliefs which tend to separate people into opposing groups, and identify others as unworthy.

Posted by maypost Saying an entire faith is a threat to peace on Earth? Seriously? How can anyone be expected to take a person seriously who says this?

How is my statement different from a jew in 1939 saying that nazis are the single biggest threat to peace?

Would you call them a bigot?




Oh, I see you've taken your ball and gone home.

You show up, call people names and then leave without addressing a single point or answering a single question I asked.

And you want to know why people would take ME seriously?

edit to add:

Am I the only one that noticed the racist sig line on the guy who called me a bigot?

Posted by maypost Wow, just wow Amazed, really I am. I give up. Best of luck on you path of ignorance and biggotry. I'm sure it's going to work out great for you. Maypost, signing out.

Ditto... reading the bullshit being spewed out on the last few pages almost had me alternating laughs and screams while sitting at my desk at work.

Posted by tekriter Hitler was a formal member of the Catholic Church until the day he died. Some of his statements on religion were contradictory, but his political platform was based on the belief that GOD created the aryan race as superior.

I am a formal member of the Catholic Church (I think, how do you become a formal member? Do I have to pay union dues?) and I have not been to a Sunday Mass in years. In fact, as far as I know Hitler grew apart from the church during WWI. I do know for a fact many Catholic and Protestant Priests actively spoke against the Nazi's and Hitler but were later silenced.

Posted by tekriter There is no argument that the central theme of the holocaust was based on Hitler's very catholic idea that the jews killed christ and the nazis often repeated catholic teachings such as the blood libel.

Yeah, no. Please read a real history book. The holocaust happened because of many reasons and the largest was the widespread anti-semiteism which was prevelent all over Europe. It was not "The evil catholic church", it was general hatred of the jews. They were a minority, they were different, and they were an outgroup, therefore they were not trusted. Another reason for the holocaust was racial purification and Eugenics, which I would not really call catholic, last time I checked the Italians are not very Aryan. Also, please try to wrap your head around the idea that while 6 million Jews will killed in the holocaust so were 5 million others. That included mentally ill and defective, because science warranted them inferior, slavs and such, again because they were racially inferior, and many priests actually who spoke against the Nazis.

Of course you wont believe any of that.

Posted by tekriter Nazism was nothing if not a cult based on unreasonable beliefs and acted out by zealots.

Nazism was based much more on nationalism and the idea of a genetically superior German people than any religious belief. The books in Hitlers school did not says "Aryans are good and jews are bad, God says so", they used science to demostrate why Aryans were superior and why the Slavs and Jews were genetically horrible and needed to be wiped out. Though this is well documented you will ignore it.

Posted by tekriter "The national socialism of all of us is anchored in uncritical loyalty, in the surrender to the Fuhrer that does not ask for the why in individual cases, in the silent execution of his orders. We believe that the fuhrer is obeying a higher call to fashion German history. There can be no criticism of this belief" Rudolf Hess June 1934

In a country ruled by propaganda a quote from a public speech is the most reliable measure of the governments true policy. Good call.

Posted by tekriter The catholic church actively supported the holocaust in croatia with moral support and even funding.

Misleading. Yes, the Croatian portion of the church did, but the Vatican, the actual Church, did not.

Posted by tekriter While the church did take direct action to save around 750,000 jews in europe, they also stood by and watched six million more get slaughtered. It's sort of hard to point to the church as a source of moral direction when they remain silent - by formal agreement with nazis - during the largest genocide in modern history:

Are you 13? What should they have done? Deployed their secret church army of 10 million men, their 20 armored divisions and 5,000 plane air force to crush Germany and stop it? Get a fuckin grip and be realistic, really.

Im sure if they did do that with a magic army you would be bitching now the Catholics destroyed the secular and legitimate Nazi government because of their rediculous moral beliefs.

Posted by tekriter The catholic church in germany handed over marriage and geneological records to the nazis all throughout the war to help determine who was or was not a jew.

Okay, I dont think you really understand how exactly the Nazi German government worked. You really think the church in Germany could have gone "Nah, cant have em" and the German government would have responded "Oh, okay, well let us know if you change your mind. Cya"? That seems to be your thoughts. You are unable to look at anything with context and its getting really annoying, especially for somebody like me who reads books on WWII and history all the time.

Posted by tekriter Although informed of the massive Nazi attacks of synagogues and Jewish business in on Kristallnacht NOV 1938, Pope Pius XII issued no public criticism. Although informed during 1940 to 1943 of Nazi atrocities in at least Austria, Lithuania, Poland, Spain, and the Ukraine, (including deportations to death camps) he made no public comments. Pope Pius XII NEVER explicitly spoke out against Hitler. (Actually, this is in error. He did condemn Hitler in one speech to the College of Cardinals, one month after the war ended.)

Again, wanna speak out against the aggressive and anti-religion government with the huge army? Or do you want to stay quiet and retain a degree of autonomy? Context, actually think.

Posted by tekriter He refused to join a resolution of the Allies condemning the Nazi crimes.

Obviously he was all for war crimes then. Thats why he let Jews hide in the catacombs of the Vatican, sent letter to prevent the export of others to Germany, and help send some out of the country.

Posted by tekriter He never excommunicated any Nazi,although he did excommunicate some German Catholics who supported cremation as an alternative to burial.

Probably because the vast majority were protestant. Only other Catholic German I can think of besides Hitler is the guy who tried to blow him up.

Posted by MutantMandias So, strict, zealous and fervent devotion to a specific set of beliefs about reality: Beliefs which tend to separate people into opposing groups, and identify others as unworthy.

The second half is your opinion. not the definition. What was that old riddle. if all A's are B's and all B's are C's then all A's must be C's. i forget the silly names they used, but A's are not C's. Same with this. Religious does not equal bigot and bigot does not mean non religious. does that mean no religious person is a bigot. No. one of my best friends is religious and a bigot. I have another friend is a bigot and sounds like a certain someone on this thread (except my friend is no where as big of a douchebag). Then you have myself, who (i feel) is neither bigoted or religious. stereotyping and bigotry go hand in hand most of the time.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby and when it comes to hate, isnt it all bad?

You seem to be a very angry young man. So angry, in fact, that anonymous people on the internet that disagree with you can send you into paroxysms of stupidity.

You vacillate from one extreme to another, but when it gets right down to it, you just don't walk the walk. You espouse hatred, drop the potty mouth all over the place and call people names like bigot and d-bag, and generally don't add all that much to the discussion.

I'm not sure you really belong in an unmoderated discussion. You can't seem to go more than a post or two without calling people names, and your vocabulary seems to be so limited that you prefer swearing over explaining your poorly laid out "arguments".

At least soldat lays out his arguments clearly and makes some good points.

Rather than the verbal abuse, why not try that?

Posted by tekriter You seem to be a very angry young man. So angry, in fact, that anonymous people on the internet that disagree with you can send you into paroxysms of stupidity. You vacillate from one extreme to another, but when it gets right down to it, you just don't walk the walk. You espouse hatred, drop the potty mouth all over the place and call people names like bigot and d-bag, and generally don't add all that much to the discussion. I'm not sure you really belong in an unmoderated discussion. You can't seem to go more than a post or two without calling people names, and your vocabulary seems to be so limited that you prefer swearing over explaining your poorly laid out "arguments". At least soldat lays out his arguments clearly and makes some good points. Rather than the verbal abuse, why not try that?

Probably because you are so closed minded that it would be the same as banging your head against a brick wall. Pointless. If its outside your safe little world, you don't want to hear anything about it. You seem to think you are the chief of the brain police, but sadly, just regurgitate "facts" and talking points from every atheist website you can click to. I use to think you really looked into things, then I found out anyone could be a google search away from an uninformed asshat.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby The second half is your opinion. not the definition.

I grant that it is not the definition. "Cars can go fast" is not part of the definition of "Car," but it is nonetheless true.

I defy you to show my statement is not true. Religious beliefs are "Beliefs which tend to separate people into opposing groups, and identify others as unworthy." Sure, there are a few creamy, Jesusy bits that you can jump on right away, but for every one of those, I could pull 10 Bible quotes which say the opposite.

I don't generally have a problem with individuals having their little delusions, as long as they don't inflict them on others, but whenever you people get together and organize, the shit hits the fan real fast. I learned that Jesus meant Love, and that's cool... I dig it.... I am all over that as a philosophy and ethic for living, but when you pull in all of the bullshit from the Bible, and start using that as a system of beliefs and behaviors, then fuck the world because no good can come from it. Ditto the Koran.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby Religious does not equal bigot and bigot does not mean non religious.

For the record, I never said anything of the sort. I said that people who are susceptible to religious beliefs are also susceptible to bigoted beliefs, partly because there is no basis in reality for either, and partly because there is a huge payoff for some people to mold religion into bigotry for their own gain.

Posted by MutantMandias but whenever you people get together and organize, the shit hits the fan real fast.

You people??? I am not a member of any religion. i dont believe in the bible. im not a follower of jesus or allah or buddah or ganesh or trees or zeus or anything. I thought after all the talking we have done back and forth you were paying attention to what i have said. i will never be a member of religion bc i have a very personal and large problem with organized religion. so when you are talking to me, please remember that. i enjoy discussing things with you. sorry if im coming off as a dick. i just annoyed when folks say im a member of some religion.

By your people, I'm pretty sure he means humans.

Posted by maypost By your people, I'm pretty sure he means humans.

Word.

You Hindu hippie Maoist

Posted by jeepdave Probably because you are so closed minded that it would be the same as banging your head against a brick wall. Pointless. If its outside your safe little world, you don't want to hear anything about it. You seem to think you are the chief of the brain police, but sadly, just regurgitate "facts" and talking points from every atheist website you can click to. I use to think you really looked into things, then I found out anyone could be a google search away from an uninformed asshat.

Once again it's ironic that the religious people are the ones slinging insults and name calling - yet you continuously hold up religion as a primary ethical source. You seem quite bitter for one who finds comfort in a higher power.

Your derision of "facts" is consistent with a limited view of the universe and the inability to make clear arguments in support of religion or the existence of a god.

No amount of personal attacks will diminish your acute inability to respond to the arguments themselves.

The arguments are clear and concise and well known from books, institutional learning and, of course, the internet. There is no difference from the religious using church resources to forward their positions.

You further diminish yourself when you make foolish assumptions about me (in a pathetic attempt to deflect attention away from unanswered arguments and poorly constructed assertions).

You don't know what I want to hear or not. In fact you complain quite loudly because people take the opposite view point to you. Would you prefer a safe little board where everyone agrees? Is the safe little world you want one in which everyone that disagrees with your unfounded beliefs is called an "asshat"?

It's ironic that you sit safe and sound in the states, well away from war and religious atrocities and point your well washed hand at "my safe little world".

More interesting to note that most religious belief is characterized by believing things you want to (wishful thinking) and being able to be forgiven for sins and survive your own death seems to be more of a safe little world than one characterized by facts and evidence and having to admit that there are questions you just don't have the answers to - yet.

My day to day survival depends on being able to evaluate facts and make decisions based on evidence. No amount of wishful thinking or prayer will help me survive in the very unsafe, big world I find myself in.

Religious belief is also often characterized by "in-group" thinking where everyone else is considered less human and not entitled to the benefits of the in-group. Is it okay for you to verbally abuse people who are less than you because they don't believe what you do?

Perhaps you should spend less time banging your head against this wall and more time learning to critically evaluate the world around you...

.. or perhaps you should re-evaluate the belief system that won't allow you to separate ideas from the person and continually fall back on personal attacks against people you don't really know at all.



Regardless of your emotional attachments to your beliefs, valid arguments are good arguments, and you either have good reasons to believe the things you do, or you don't.

For what it's worth I am not in any way a religious man, at all. I was not raised in a spiritual family nor have I ever felt the need to go to church/temple/whatever...

But I don't condone prejudice comments. You state boarder line racist comments as fact. So you can say I'm name calling... but I'm not. I am calling you a biggot based solely on what you are saying, you explanations make your statements even more biggoted. Your statements are grossly mis-informed, nowhere near accurate and have little to no basis in fact. You claimed the Nazis were a super-catholic group hell bent on destroying the Hebrew population because they "killed Jesus"... WRONG You also said that Islam is the biggest threat to world peace... once again... WRONG. At the end of the day, you have shown that you are simply not capable of listening to anyone if they happen to believe in a supreme being of any kind.

I used to think you were smart, that you researched before you posted anything... I know my own faults; all these years I have been... WRONG

There were a few Nazis who thought the Jews deserved it because of killing Jesus, but they were fringe characters, the kind of nutty philosophers who gravitated towards the SS. Soldat already laid the real deal accurately and completely.

An interesting fact is that Hitler was an avid reader and owned a huge personal library. He often got books as gifts. Many books in his collection were religious, and some showed they were read by him with personal annotations made in the margin.

http://www.theatla...2003/05/ryback.htm

Posted by maypost For what it's worth I am not in any way a religious man, at all. I was not raised in a spiritual family nor have I ever felt the need to go to church/temple/whatever...

Good for you. It's woth nothing.

Posted by maypost But I don't condone prejudice comments.

You may condone or not condone whatever you want, for what it's worth.

Posted by maypost You state boarder line racist comments as fact.

You misrepresent arguments for the furtherance of your own agenda. I can't condone that.

Posted by maypost You claimed the Nazis were a super-catholic group hell bent on destroying the Hebrew population because they "killed Jesus"... WRONG

1) Simply saying wrong is not a valid argument. But if that's all you have...
2) "super-catholic" may be true if by that you mean beyond catholic.

The pseudo religious aspects of nazism are well documented, as is the fact that the origins of many of their ideas are christian of catholic based. Camus wrote a long essay on nazism as a religion as have many others.

One of the stated goals of the nazis was to purge the bible of all of it's jewish content. They also asserted that jesus was not a jew, buth rather nordic.

The misdeeds or omissions of the catholic church are also well documented.

Nonetheless, much of the holocaust was based on religion - the fact that the single largest group attacked was a "religious" group attests to that.

My original point was that hitler was neither an athiest nor was the holocaust not about religion. I stand by that statement. Further to that I suggest to you that the catholic church, pargmatic or not, took the moral low ground during the worst events of the 20th century. And there they remain, hitler youth pope and all.

Posted by maypost You also said that Islam is the biggest threat to world peace... once again... WRONG.

1) Simply saying wrong is not a valid argument. But if that's all you have...
2) any number of government agencies have said the exact same thing. If you like I will clarify - MILITANT islam is the greatest threat to world peace. If I was unclear, I unreservedly apologize. However:

Iran is attempting to build nuclear weapons and thier stated goal is to wipe israel off the map.

No other social group on on the planet is currently supplying an unlimited number of suicide bombers.

19 muslim arab males between the ages of 17 and 27 did not crash airplanes in the WTC because they were ripped off at the drive through.


What is your defence of militant islam? The goals of Jihad are violent and a threat to all of us. The doctrine is fully consistent with scripture. The so called moderate islamic groups can do nothing concrete to dilute militant islam, which is de-centralized and hell-bent on destroying your way of life.

Shall I quote chapter and verse of the Koran and Hadtih.

3) I criticized an unreasonable system of beliefs, not individual humans. There is a big difference, but if you are too bigoted to see that...

Thank you for proving my point <3

Posted by maypost ou also said that Islam is the biggest threat to world peace... once again... WRONG.

OK, how is it wrong? I'll admit that Islam itself may not be, but fanatical Islam is. I would argue, however, that Islam is merely tangential to most of the groups that we call Islamic fanatics. But that's just my own pet theory.

Please tell me you are kidding.

Islam is the umbrella term, EVERY muslim falls under Islam's umbrella. So saying they are a curse on the world or that they are a threat to the world is 100% no different than what the Nazi WERE actually doing in the late 30s

Posted by Esoterik There were a few Nazis who thought the Jews deserved it because of killing Jesus, but they were fringe characters, the kind of nutty philosophers who gravitated towards the SS. Soldat already laid the real deal accurately and completely. An interesting fact is that Hitler was an avid reader and owned a huge personal library. He often got books as gifts. Many books in his collection were religious, and some showed they were read by him with personal annotations made in the margin. http://www.theatla...2003/05/ryback.htm

Interesting article:

In the 1960s Friedrich Heer, a prominent and controversial Viennese theologian, identified Hitler as a misguided "Austrian Catholic," a man whose faith was disastrously misplaced but nevertheless sincere. In a dense, 750-page treatise Heer saw Hitler the Austrian Catholic at every turn: the nine-year-old choirboy catching his first glimpse of a swastika in the coat of arms at the Lambach Monastery; the beer-hall orator whose speeches resound with biblical allusions; the Führer of the Reich who re-created the splendor of the Catholic mass at the annual Nuremberg rally. Even his virulent hatred of Jewry found sustenance in those roots. Fritz Redlich, an eminent Yale psychiatrist, asserts in his book, Hitler: Diagnosis of a Destructive Prophet, that Hitler acted from a profound belief in God. Noting Hitler's own words "Man kommt um den Gottesbegriff nicht um" ("You cannot get around the concept of God"), Redlich told me last summer that he was certain Hitler believed in a "divine creature." He rejected suggestions that Hitler's invocations of the divine were little more than cynical public posturing and insisted that we ought to take Hitler at his word: "In a way, Hitler was a terrible liar, but he was a tactical liar. In his essential line of thinking he was honest.



There is much contradictory evidence as to his motivations, but beyond the speculation, I think we can find some common ground and agree that Hitler and the Nazis had some unreasonable beliefs and no good reason to believe the things they did.

Personal beliefs directly influence your actions and there is no more sad evidence of this than the entire chapter of our history.

Posted by maypost Please tell me you are kidding. Islam is the umbrella term, EVERY muslim falls under Islam's umbrella. So saying they are a curse on the world or that they are a threat to the world is 100% no different than what the Nazi WERE actually doing in the late 30s

What if the jews said the same about the nazis?