Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby Are you aware that Jesus is the most quoted prophet in the Quran? So by saying that Muslims are evil and violent you are saying that Christians are too.

A: Nobody said they are evil, just that they are very violent.

B: That statement is ridiculous.

Please don't post again until you answer my previous question with your own thoughts, not something you lifted from Time.
"I respect Islam exactly as I do Scientology, Christian Identity, and the theory that alien lizard men have controlled human history since the caves were painted at Lascaux."

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby I'm not Muslim. I have just read the Quran Have you ever read it? Are you aware that Jesus is the most quoted prophet in the Quran? So by saying that Muslims are evil and violent you are saying that Christians are too. the only permissible war is one of self-defense. Muslims may not begin hostilities (2: 190). Warfare is always evil, but sometimes you have to fight in order to avoid the kind of persecution that Mecca inflicted on the Muslims (2: 191; 2: 217) or to preserve decent values (4: 75; 22: 40). The Koran quotes the Torah, the Jewish scriptures, which permits people to retaliate eye for eye, tooth for tooth, but like the Gospels, the Koran suggests that it is meritorious to forgo revenge in a spirit of charity (5: 45). Hostilities must be brought to an end as quickly as possible and must cease the minute the enemy sues for peace (2: 192-3). Here is another whole article for you to ignore and continue with your attack on islam http://www.time.co...1-175987%2C00.html

I'll see your time magazine article and raise you a day by day list of attacks done in the name if islam

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Posted by Soldat So if somebody does something mundane, and it sets me off on a killing spree then that person is culpable? No, in that case I am insane.

Not really the same thing. If you say "don't do that mundane thing" and have killed in the past for it and have killed for other reasons, then it is the same. I find it hard to believe anyone would see people rioting over an act, saying the act caused the riot, but claiming the actor has no culpability. (Poor writing, forgive).

Islam, as depicted in our media is insane, yes, murderous, yes. But the "preacher" set off the riots, you cannot deny that.

Posted by G to the Race Not really the same thing. If you say "don't do that mundane thing" and have killed in the past for it and have killed for other reasons, then it is the same. I find it hard to believe anyone would see people rioting over an act, saying the act caused the riot, but claiming the actor has no culpability. (Poor writing, forgive). Islam, as depicted in our media is insane, yes, murderous, yes. But the "preacher" set off the riots, you cannot deny that.

True, he did set off the riots I suppose. But I also refuse to believe this violence would have never happened had he not. It is just an excuse to kill and play the victim by those who kill anyway.

Posted by Soldat True, he did set off the riots I suppose. But I also refuse to believe this violence would have never happened had he not. It is just an excuse to kill and play the victim by those who kill anyway.

I would not claim otherwise (I would hedge on "never) good talk.

OK, my turn.

By definition, when you judge a whole group on the actions of a few, especially a tiny minority, that is bigotry. Saying all urban explorers are vandals because a few, who may not even be explorers, committed acts of vandalism, is bigoted. Saying all blacks are criminals because some commit crimes, or because they are overrepresented in the prison population, is bigoted. Saying all Muslims are violent jihadists because a few are, is bigoted.

BUT, Islam gives violence more of a pass than other religions do. That is true.

BUT, the Koran is more than just a book to Muslims. I read recently they regard burning it as the equivalent to Christians of burning Jesus himself. There are a host of rules regarding its treatment, such as you must never put anything on top of it. (Makes me wonder how Muslims pack for vacation.)

BUT, that doesn't excuse violence over it. A demonstration is fine, but violence only exacerbates the problem and reinforces stereotypes.

Religious moderates of all stripes share culpability in allowing extremists to exist. I don't think Terry Jones could have predicted who the victims would have been, but it didn't take a genius to know that something was going to happen. He knew, and he did it deliberately, and now he goes back to his congregation and says "See? I told you Islam was evil!"

I don't think its fair to compare Christianity and Islam. Christianity (indirectly) has far more political, military and economic power in the world. Islam has comparatively little. People who feel marginalized often resort to extreme measures.

Posted by Soldat A: Nobody said they are evil, just that they are very violent.

Wrong.

If not all then most are evil. That's what you just said by the phrase "not ALL muslims are evil". Hell, even the MEDIA is starting to expose islam for what it is. I don't see why you have to defend islam so much, but you wont lift a finger for christianity. Which really doesnt make sense since you believe they are so equal. I really dont care what you believe in, but you just dont make sense.

Posted by splumer BUT, Islam gives violence more of a pass than other religions do. That is true.

Yep

Posted by splumer BUT, the Koran is more than just a book to Muslims. I read recently they regard burning it as the equivalent to Christians of burning Jesus himself.

But you dont see christians killing jews (jews didnt defend him) and romans (torchered and killed him) because of their betrayal and physical torcher and crucifix of Jesus, do you?

So why do muslims get an excuse to kill over their "savior" being burned???

Posted by Mr_Fiend But you dont see christians killing jews (jews didnt defend him) and romans (torchered and killed him) because of their betrayal and physical torcher and crucifix of Jesus, do you?

Huh? Where have you been for the last 2000 years?

BTW, it's spelled "tortured." Just tryin' to help.

Posted by splumer Huh? Where have you been for the last 2000 years? BTW, it's spelled "tortured." Just tryin' to help.

"Uncalled for discount" "Whatever discount"

I don't know...current us troops killed is 4446 compared to at least 100,000 Iraqi civilians and estimates into the millions. 12 friendlies killed in a riot by religious fanatics pissed over a blatant disrespect of their holy book (coupled with the egregious act of an unjust invasion) is so much worse than killing hundreds of thousands for control of resources? Isn't that just as insane?

Posted by Livingstone Isn't that just as insane?

Get out of here with your logic!

Posted by splumer Get out of here with your logic!

Pardon me, good sir. Carry on.

You can justify their actions right up to the point they kill you. Call me a bigot and racist. I don't give a fuck, I don't like em. There said it. I don't like the way they act, I don't like the was the pray, I don't like the way they equate killing with the burning of a book. Don't like em. Don't like em at all.

Posted by Livingstone I don't know...current us troops killed is 4446 compared to at least 100,000 Iraqi civilians and estimates into the millions. 12 friendlies killed in a riot by religious fanatics pissed over a blatant disrespect of their holy book (coupled with the egregious act of an unjust invasion) is so much worse than killing hundreds of thousands for control of resources? Isn't that just as insane?

There is also the inconvenient truth that the VAST majority of civilian casualties in the middle east are caused by suicide bombers and insurgents, not by US or Coalition foreces.

But let's ignore that and pretend the US did it I guess.

Bottom line.

We have no business in that part of the world. We can't even run our own country. So why are we even there in the first place trying to "fix" them when we are such a mess ourselves. If we were not there, none of this would even be happening.

Posted by maypost If we were not there, none of this would even be happening.

So, none of this would have happened?

http://www.thereli...mericanAttacks.htm

Posted by Mr_Fiend So, none of this would have happened? http://www.thereli...mericanAttacks.htm

You are aware that the website you keep using is a propaganda site? Its like me using a KKK site to discuss "why black people suck"

You are knit-picking

You know it

Grow up.


What I am saying is, that THIS PARTICULAR INCIDENT would not be happening if we did not make a nasty habit of poking our nose into countries on the other side of the world. If we stayed out of the Middle East(instead of making up lies to have excuses to carpet bomb entire communities) chances are this PARTICULAR incident would never have happened.