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 Stewie
      
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Gender: Male
kill your idols
 |  |  | Re: Bye Bye Lyric
<Reply # 100 on 1/24/2010 11:29 PM >
|  | | | For those who have been in the past but couldn't make it down to see the building before it was ripped down, I edited the better photos of what I have taken since this thing first began. I never made it inside and at this point there is less than half the building left. I guess Bryan was the last person to enter the building, aside from the demolition people. I think that's fitting. I know he loved the Lyric dearly.
(What was left of the modern auditorium on Friday. It's the dark portion, you can sorta make out one of the art deco paintings)
> The hierarchy of power dictates that the person with the most power does the least amount of work and retains the highest benefit. |
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steponmebbbboom
*NSFW*
| | Re: Bye Bye Lyric
<Reply # 101 on 1/24/2010 11:51 PM >
| | | | thanks stewie, great photos.
Mentos... The Freshmaker |
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TrixieSparrow
  
Location: Hamilton, ON
Gender: Female
I guess.
| | Re: Bye Bye Lyric
<Reply # 102 on 1/25/2010 6:11 AM >
| | | | :'(
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Novocaine
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Bye Bye Lyric
<Reply # 103 on 1/27/2010 6:16 PM >
| | | | Wow, pretty much gone now. Thanks Stewie for the pictures.
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Stewie
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Gender: Male
kill your idols
| | | Re: Bye Bye Lyric
<Reply # 104 on 1/28/2010 1:38 AM >
| | | | The last part of the rear of the building was demolished today. It's all gone now.
I will miss this theatre more than I ever thought that I would.
> The hierarchy of power dictates that the person with the most power does the least amount of work and retains the highest benefit. |
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Lexi
Location: Oslo, Norway
Gender: Female
I'm getting old.
| | Re: Bye Bye Lyric
<Reply # 105 on 1/28/2010 2:01 AM >
| | | | Posted by Stewie
The last part of the rear of the building was demolished today. It's all gone now.
I will miss this theatre more than I ever thought that I would.
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Yup. It's a sad day for the Hamilton crew I think.
[15:00:33] <SeeThirty> cause you're not likely to be anywhere that other people haven't been who didn't have protection
[15:00:41] <SeeThirty> still better safe than lexi |
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: Bye Bye Lyric
<Reply # 106 on 1/28/2010 3:56 AM >
| | | | Sad indeed, but with pics like the one on the other page where the bricks are starting to fall apart and separate...demolition really is/was the safest bet.
Remember the building on Jarvis Street in Toronto?
http://www.citytv....g-partial-collapse
It's far better to have the building brought down safely. Imagine what would happen if someone was walking by and it gave? Or worse yet, inside? They're thinking about liability here. As much as they might not want to tear down part of history, they also don't want to be remembered as an administration that allowed people to get hurt/killed because of neglect.
Unit calling radio say again? |
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steponmebbbboom
*NSFW*
| | Re: Bye Bye Lyric
<Reply # 107 on 1/28/2010 10:35 PM >
| | | | the sad part is not the demolition, but the neglectful owner who allowed the building to deteriorate to this condition in the first place and the city for not enforcing its property standards. that's what needs to be remembered here.
Mentos... The Freshmaker |
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KONG
Sus scrofa domestica
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Bye Bye Lyric
<Reply # 108 on 1/29/2010 2:00 AM >
| | | | If the city enforced it's property standards this building and many other historic buildings in Hamilton would have either been torn down a long time ago or the city would own it for back taxes and they would be responsible for maintaining it.
It's pretty simple. The building isn't economical. There isn't enough money to be made by renovating it without giant government handouts. There is no market for this type of real estate in downtown Hamilton.
The result is years of neglect, condemnation, then finally demolition.
It's always sad to see beautiful old buildings coming down. The problem isn't that Hamilton doesn't enforce property standards, it's that Hamilton (and almost every other city in Canada) encourages development only in the outer suburban parts of the city. This development slowly kills downtowns.
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Stewie
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Gender: Male
kill your idols
| | | Re: Bye Bye Lyric
<Reply # 109 on 1/29/2010 3:22 AM >
| | | | I'd like to dispute the first part of what KONG said but I can't. It's definitely true. We would have all loved to see Lyric restored into a second-run theatre or something like that but realistically there is little market for that in even Toronto or other high class cities. Out of the large handful of theatres that were in downtown Hamilton over the last 100 years, only one exists now and it is barely able to turn a profit. These include the Tivoli, Capitol, Century, Palace, Hyland and the Odeon in the downtown core proper. All of these theatres have been demolished in the last 30 years with exception to the Tivoli's auditorium. The Tivoli and Century specifically were sold off and closed by Famous Players when the Jackson Square twin screen turned into a 6-screen multiplex. There was just no viable way to keep single screen ex-vaudeville movie houses in operation.
The second part of what KONG said I 100% agree with. It definitely has exacerbated the situation in Hamilton and many other North American cities. When the development is pushed to the suburbs, it leaves the core to rot.
[last edit 1/29/2010 3:24 AM by Stewie - edited 1 times]
> The hierarchy of power dictates that the person with the most power does the least amount of work and retains the highest benefit. |
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steponmebbbboom
*NSFW*
| | Re: Bye Bye Lyric
<Reply # 110 on 1/29/2010 3:40 AM >
| | | | Posted by KONG
If the city enforced it's property standards this building and many other historic buildings in Hamilton would have either been torn down a long time ago or the city would own it for back taxes and they would be responsible for maintaining it.
It's pretty simple. The building isn't economical. There isn't enough money to be made by renovating it without giant government handouts. There is no market for this type of real estate in downtown Hamilton.
The result is years of neglect, condemnation, then finally demolition.
It's always sad to see beautiful old buildings coming down. The problem isn't that Hamilton doesn't enforce property standards, it's that Hamilton (and almost every other city in Canada) encourages development only in the outer suburban parts of the city. This development slowly kills downtowns.
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when was the last time you actually spent some time here?
i live and work in a building like this one. a friend of mine is renovating the hotel hamilton on james north and it's already partially leased, the latest of four that he's redeveloped this way (1: 270 Sherman 2: 468 Cumberland Avenue 3: 303 Cumberland Avenue) another friend of mine owns a corner building on james north that he's renovating room by room for artists' studios and has been running a successful business out of the ground floor (Mixed Media) for morwe than four years.
you can't just tear down an historic building without a demolition permit. the city doesnt just grant a permit to anyone who wants one. you are right that the city is not doing enough to encourage development of historic buildings but to say there's no market for it? go take a walk down princess street in your own city! and kingston doesnt have half the arts community that hamilton does. i should know, i lived in kingston for ten years before i moved here. there are TONS of opportunity here for developers who want to repurpose old buildings, it has been happening steadily here for years now.
what's really sad about old buildings coming down are the citizens of those communities sitting on their hands and letting it happen because they believe theyre either beyond repair or useless without actually having a clue what theyre talking about. i had this argument with a mechanic i work with this morning and he had absolutely no interest in hearing an alternate point of view. just wanted to think that the best thing for the 41 pre-confederate buildings on the south side of colborne street in brantford need to be ripped down as soon as possible so they can put up condos, a mall, whatever stupid new development to MIRROR harmony square that has been 60% vacant for the last ten years at least, right across the street! and didnt give two squirts of piss that he was wrong, and he knew it. THATS whats sad...
edit: inb4 stewie
[last edit 1/29/2010 3:42 AM by steponmebbbboom - edited 1 times]
Mentos... The Freshmaker |
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steponmebbbboom
*NSFW*
| | Re: Bye Bye Lyric
<Reply # 111 on 1/29/2010 3:46 AM >
| | | | Posted by Stewie
It's definitely true. We would have all loved to see Lyric restored into a second-run theatre or something like that but realistically there is little market for that in even Toronto or other high class cities. |
you are aware of the TIVOLI capital campaign being launched by the CBYE, are you not?
its going on right now, and would be much further along or even completed if the tivoli's roof hadnt collapsed due to the city not forcing the landlord to heed the warnings of his own tenants....
EDIT the Westdale theatre is doing just fine, last month when i was in there the place was filled up pretty nicely...
[last edit 1/29/2010 3:50 AM by steponmebbbboom - edited 1 times]
Mentos... The Freshmaker |
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Stewie
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Gender: Male
kill your idols
| | | Re: Bye Bye Lyric
<Reply # 112 on 1/29/2010 4:23 AM >
| | | | I am familiar with that project however I am incredibly skeptical of it as the CYBE has owned the Tivoli for some time now and only recently taken the require measures to repair the roof of the auditorium. What you referenced about Loren Lieberman, the City and the Sniderman's is something I definitely agree on and is a similar story to the Century.
My main hope is that the demise of the Century results in more attention towards the Tivoli which in turn would accelerate the project's speed and hopefully quality. The renderings that I have thus far seen of the re-designed lobby were very lacking and not at all faithful to the building's original design.
> The hierarchy of power dictates that the person with the most power does the least amount of work and retains the highest benefit. |
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TrixieSparrow
Location: Hamilton, ON
Gender: Female
I guess.
| | Re: Bye Bye Lyric
<Reply # 113 on 1/29/2010 7:50 AM >
| | | | Posted by KONG
If the city enforced it's property standards this building and many other historic buildings in Hamilton would have either been torn down a long time ago or the city would own it for back taxes and they would be responsible for maintaining it.
It's pretty simple. The building isn't economical. There isn't enough money to be made by renovating it without giant government handouts. There is no market for this type of real estate in downtown Hamilton.
The result is years of neglect, condemnation, then finally demolition.
It's always sad to see beautiful old buildings coming down. The problem isn't that Hamilton doesn't enforce property standards, it's that Hamilton (and almost every other city in Canada) encourages development only in the outer suburban parts of the city. This development slowly kills downtowns.
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Sad truth.
All any of us could do at this point was watch with heavy hearts and be thankful that nobody was hurt.
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KONG
Sus scrofa domestica
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Bye Bye Lyric
<Reply # 114 on 1/29/2010 12:08 PM >
| | | | Posted by steponmebbbboom
when was the last time you actually spent some time here?
i live and work in a building like this one. a friend of mine is renovating the hotel hamilton on james north and it's already partially leased, the latest of four that he's redeveloped this way (1: 270 Sherman 2: 468 Cumberland Avenue 3: 303 Cumberland Avenue) another friend of mine owns a corner building on james north that he's renovating room by room for artists' studios and has been running a successful business out of the ground floor (Mixed Media) for morwe than four years.
you can't just tear down an historic building without a demolition permit. the city doesnt just grant a permit to anyone who wants one. you are right that the city is not doing enough to encourage development of historic buildings but to say there's no market for it? go take a walk down princess street in your own city! and kingston doesnt have half the arts community that hamilton does. i should know, i lived in kingston for ten years before i moved here. there are TONS of opportunity here for developers who want to repurpose old buildings, it has been happening steadily here for years now.
what's really sad about old buildings coming down are the citizens of those communities sitting on their hands and letting it happen because they believe theyre either beyond repair or useless without actually having a clue what theyre talking about. i had this argument with a mechanic i work with this morning and he had absolutely no interest in hearing an alternate point of view. just wanted to think that the best thing for the 41 pre-confederate buildings on the south side of colborne street in brantford need to be ripped down as soon as possible so they can put up condos, a mall, whatever stupid new development to MIRROR harmony square that has been 60% vacant for the last ten years at least, right across the street! and didnt give two squirts of piss that he was wrong, and he knew it. THATS whats sad...
edit: inb4 stewie
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Kingston is a little different. The downtown Kingston area is home to 2 universities and thousands of high paying jobs. Kingston has encouraged downtown development far more than Hamilton. Kingston is more economically stable than Hamilton is. Kingston has a higher median family income. Probably most important: Downtown Kingston has never been unhealthy. It's not as hard to convince creditors that a building is going to be profitable when it's surrounded by other healthy businesses instead of empty parking lots.
Now.. I never said that it won't work in Hamilton. As you pointed out, many historic buildings have been saved and many are still in use. Most of these ones being saved didn't cost what the Lyric would have cost to save. Even the Royal Connaught is still in some state of reconstruction, and it's fairly simple and probably structurally sound.
Brantford is your typical donut city. A somewhat healthy city surrounding a hollow core. What do you think caused this?
[last edit 1/29/2010 12:14 PM by KONG - edited 1 times]
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: Bye Bye Lyric
<Reply # 115 on 1/29/2010 2:45 PM >
|  | | | Buildings don't last forever.
People don't have the money to maintain them. I don't believe the city should have to foot the bill for their upkeep.
Unit calling radio say again? |
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steponmebbbboom
*NSFW*
| | Re: Bye Bye Lyric
<Reply # 116 on 1/29/2010 11:22 PM >
| | | | Posted by Stewie
I am familiar with that project however I am incredibly skeptical of it as the CYBE has owned the Tivoli for some time now and only recently taken the require measures to repair the roof of the auditorium. |
the tivoli was bought by the cbye and the capital campaign was launched in 2006, that's when the fundraising began. that occurred after the roof collapse in 2004. i would not encourage them to begin work on the tivoli sooner unless the donations start coming in faster otherwise you WILL see something like what you saw in the proposal that didnt impress you. good development costs good money, push for a result and youll get what you pay for, in money and time... the building is stabilised for now, and thankfully didnt have to be completely demolished. they even landscaped the front lot so it would look like less of an eyesore while they let the donation money build up. theyve been pretty responsible so-far, compared to the asshat that had it before...
Posted by Dresden
All any of us could do at this point was watch with heavy hearts and be thankful that nobody was hurt. |
you can do more if you choose to. you can call in bylaw infractions, speak at council meetings, contact the ministry of culture, write in to the newspaper, even speak to your friends and get them motivated to get involved in saving old buildings... surely after all this time exploring abandoned buildings youve come to care about them and become familiar with the process of neglect, deterioration, misguided attempts to board windows without addressing moisture/ventilation issues, for example... any of several things myself and various friends of mine are doing... seems to me youre in an ideal position to spread awareness and hope for the buildings you love. so go do it?
Posted by KONG
Now.. I never said that it won't work in Hamilton. |
Now youre talking...
| Brantford is your typical donut city. A somewhat healthy city surrounding a hollow core. What do you think caused this? |
the cause is well-documented and has little to do with the solution moving forward. most of those buildings are structurally sound and a few can be restored with very little work, all it takes is a pleasant alternative to big box retail in the bathtub ring of brantford, i lived there for a year and HATED the fact that i had to shop at ugly big-box stores on the outskirts of town because these buildings were boarded up and not a single person i met during that year felt any different about not having a charming little main-drag shop district in their downtown. what's missing in Brantford is AWARENESS, plain and simple. want proof? check out the facebook page for the buildings and read the quasi-literate naysayers here:
http://www.faceboo...p?gid=264835224286
why is tearing them down a bad idea? James Howard Kunstler explains:
http://www.youtube...atch?v=Q1ZeXnmDZMQ
posted by excalibur
People don't have the money to maintain them. I don't believe the city should have to foot the bill for their upkeep. |
i agree. what cities could be doing is expropriating, then giving the buildings to developers who submit a decent proposal for restoration and repurposing of the buildings. the incentive is the heritage property in a prime location, the payout is a downtown with vibrant small businesses and quality apartments, all back on the tax rolls. let's use brantford again as an example. harmony square is vacant because it's ugly and right across the street from boarded-up buildings. Perfect example that new development for its own sake, does not work by itself (ref. Kunstler) so Fix the buildings get quality locally-owned businesses in there and downtown will be a nice place to visit again. if brantford is big enough and wealthy enough to float all the bigbox giants on the outskirts, theres a market for quaint little shops downtown and people will travel extra to park in the HUGE parkade and shop there.
or you can believe whatever you want and sit on your butts and cry about it? -no one ever got anything they wanted by convincing themselves they couldn't do it, so cry all you want it won't change nothing.............
Mentos... The Freshmaker |
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Bryan
Location: hello
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Bye Bye Lyric
<Reply # 117 on 1/30/2010 1:01 AM >
| | | | Posted by exkalibur
Sad indeed, but with pics like the one on the other page where the bricks are starting to fall apart and separate...demolition really is/was the safest bet.
Remember the building on Jarvis Street in Toronto?
http://www.citytv....g-partial-collapse
It's far better to have the building brought down safely. Imagine what would happen if someone was walking by and it gave? Or worse yet, inside? They're thinking about liability here. As much as they might not want to tear down part of history, they also don't want to be remembered as an administration that allowed people to get hurt/killed because of neglect.
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Yeah, because, you know.. Gerrard St in Toronto and Mary St in Hamilton see identical amounts of foot traffic. God help us if some poor soul got hurt walking along the giant pedestrian hotspot that is empty lot where a building used to be.
It's incredibly naive of you to think the developers had any care for the history of the building beyond that of public relations. They had many chances to redevelop during the 10 years they owned it, yet they played it off as a "let's put it on the backburner and see what happens". It's another case where someone purchases a building with no real redevelopment plan, waits 10 years, it falls down, and everyone in the development field is happy.
You'd think after Lister, people would learn.
drive well sleep carefully
http://www.exboration.com/ |
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Thadius
Location: Hamilton
Gender: Male
Above all, Truth
| |  |  |  | Re: Bye Bye Lyric
<Reply # 119 on 1/30/2010 4:22 PM >
| | | | The Balfour building was part of the Lister Block.
Stop being so particular.
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