I'm not sure where I stand on abortion. On one hand, I don't like women having a choice, so I'm kind of against it, but on the other hand I like killing babies, so I'm kind of for it, too.

Posted by Roland I'm not sure where I stand on abortion. On one hand, I don't like women having a choice, so I'm kind of against it, but on the other hand I like killing babies, so I'm kind of for it, too.

that's the spirit.

Posted by splumer Aha! So it's more about punishing women who have the audacity to have sex!

Is it too much to ask for them to use Birth Control? I mean honestly, that would end the entire debate wouldn't it, if people just were responsible enough to wear a fuckin rubber, or take a pill.

Posted by jeepdave Is it too much to ask for them to use Birth Control? I mean honestly, that would end the entire debate wouldn't it, if people just were responsible enough to wear a fuckin rubber, or take a pill.

oh of course...

NooooOoooooOOOOoOO. God says no birth control.

Posted by jeepdave Is it too much to ask for them to use Birth Control? I mean honestly, that would end the entire debate wouldn't it, if people just were responsible enough to wear a fuckin rubber, or take a pill.

That's a great idea, except that when high school health classes start talking about birth control, the fundies get their panties in a bunch and say that the schools are encouraging kids to have sex, or they lobby school boards to have abstinence-only education, etc. Why not have condoms available in vending machines at schools? That would be a great idea. Of course, it's hard to be sensible in the throes of passion.

Of course, birth control fails. A friend of mine got pregnant (by her husband) once when their condom failed. She went on the pill, and got pregnant again. After that, hubby got snipped.

Posted by splumer That's a great idea, except that when high school health classes start talking about birth control, the fundies get their panties in a bunch and say that the schools are encouraging kids to have sex, or they lobby school boards to have abstinence-only education, etc. Why not have condoms available in vending machines at schools? That would be a great idea. Of course, it's hard to be sensible in the throes of passion. Of course, birth control fails. A friend of mine got pregnant (by her husband) once when their condom failed. She went on the pill, and got pregnant again. After that, hubby got snipped.

All of that is simply excuses for poor planning and behaviour. Yeah, BC can fail. I have a daughter because of a failed condom. Best thing to happen to me, straightened me out when I was headed down a bad path in life. I live IN the bible belt, and our sex ed taught everything, including abstinence. So I find it hard to believe that there are schools that bow to the pressure elsewhere. And even if they do, you know what can come of sex. And don't give me the sensible in the throes of passion bullshit. If you can't take a few seconds to use BC, then you should have your dick cut off. Period.

Posted by jeepdave And don't give me the sensible in the throes of passion bullshit. If you can't take a few seconds to use BC, then you should have your dick cut off. Period.

Funny, I thought he was making a relatively straightforward comment on how religious people can't be sensible in the throws of their passionate delusions.

If a woman becomes pregnant, without any interference in the natural process such as abortion or miscarriage, in 9 months that "blob of cells" will be born a living human being. How can there be any debate as to when life begins? I'm sorry but no matter how you try to rationalize it, abortion is the killing of another human being, albeit a tiny one, plain and simple.

Posted by Trixi If a woman becomes pregnant, without any interference in the natural process such as abortion or miscarriage, in 9 months that "blob of cells" will be born a living human being. How can there be any debate as to when life begins? I'm sorry but no matter how you try to rationalize it, abortion is the killing of another human being, albeit a tiny one, plain and simple.

And I have no problem with it.

Interesting trivia fact. The lady who got abortion legalized in america is now pro life and regrets getting it legalized.

Back home in Chattanooga there is the national memorial for unborn children and it's inside a former abortion clinic. It is heartbreaking, they are hundreds maybe thousands of plaques for children that were aborted. Some people leaves notes or letters to their unborn child explaining why they did it and that they are sorry.

I am also not 100% on this but I do believe the number of people who get more than one abortion is a very small number. I also have several friends who got an abortion and they almost immediately regretted. Which seems to be the case for most folks from what I have read. Just food for thought.

Posted by Trixi <whiny irrational video>

Significantly not impressive.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby I also have several friends who got an abortion and they almost immediately regretted. Which seems to be the case for most folks from what I have read. Just food for thought.

I also know several people who chose to have abortions. It is a difficult decision for most people, involving a lot of factors. It always involves a great deal of sadness, some before, but mostly after the procedure. And in every case that I know of, there were regrets, but it was still deemed the right decision.

So lets try to lay it out.

What makes something "a human life"? What makes something worthy of moral consideration?

Posted by Soldat So lets try to lay it out. What makes something "a human life"? What makes something worthy of moral consideration?

THAT is the million-dollar question. Theists would say conception, believing that that's the time when God puts the soul into the body. Atheists would say there is no such thing as a soul, so when a zygote becomes a "person" is difficult to judge, at best.

But there is no "right to life." The US has the highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world. We execute people right and left. The US murder rate ranks among such paragons of civility as Columbia and Mexico. We kill tens of thousands of people in wars (including American soldiers), and no one bats an eyelash. Whether any of this is right or wrong isn't the issue. It just shows that we don't really have as great an attachment to life as we like to imagine.

Posted by splumer THAT is the million-dollar question. Theists would say conception, believing that that's the time when God puts the soul into the body. Atheists would say there is no such thing as a soul, so when a zygote becomes a "person" is difficult to judge, at best. But there is no "right to life." The US has the highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world. We execute people right and left. The US murder rate ranks among such paragons of civility as Columbia and Mexico. We kill tens of thousands of people in wars (including American soldiers), and no one bats an eyelash. Whether any of this is right or wrong isn't the issue. It just shows that we don't really have as great an attachment to life as we like to imagine.

I believe in God, but my stance on this has nothing to do with God or souls. I believe that the only possibly outcome from some getting pregnant is a baby. It doesn't matter how much it looks like it or how developed it is, it is still a baby.

I'm pro-life from beginning to end. I am against abortion, i am against the death penalty, and I am against war. I have a problem with killing anyone.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby I believe in God, but my stance on this has nothing to do with God or souls. I believe that the only possibly outcome from some getting pregnant is a baby. It doesn't matter how much it looks like it or how developed it is, it is still a baby. I'm pro-life from beginning to end. I am against abortion, i am against the death penalty, and I am against war. I have a problem with killing anyone.

Glad to hear it. Most pregnancies ("Fertilizations" might be a better word) result in spontaneous miscarriage. If one considers this an act of God, that makes God an abortionist. Of course, one could argue that it's God's prerogative to end any life he sees fit.

Personally, I don't have an answer. I generally favor abortion rights, but I also favor personal responsibility, better education and easier access to birth control for the folks who need it. Eliminating the need for abortions, I think, would make everyone happier.

Posted by splumer THAT is the million-dollar question. Theists would say conception, believing that that's the time when God puts the soul into the body. Atheists would say there is no such thing as a soul, so when a zygote becomes a "person" is difficult to judge, at best. But there is no "right to life." The US has the highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world. We execute people right and left. The US murder rate ranks among such paragons of civility as Columbia and Mexico. We kill tens of thousands of people in wars (including American soldiers), and no one bats an eyelash. Whether any of this is right or wrong isn't the issue. It just shows that we don't really have as great an attachment to life as we like to imagine.

I don't consider murderers, criminals to be people like you or me. So that negates the execution and the vast majority of deaths by murder. I don't count my nation's enemies either, they are also sub human. So its not killing, its just post-birth abortion. A .223 round zipping through somebodies head is just a extrauterine cranial decompression as far as I am concerned.

Posted by splumer personal responsibility, better education and easier access to birth control for the folks who need it. Eliminating the need for abortions, I think, would make everyone happier.

This ^^^

Posted by splumer Personally, I don't have an answer. I generally favor abortion rights, but I also favor personal responsibility, better education and easier access to birth control for the folks who need it. Eliminating the need for abortions, I think, would make everyone happier.

I used to be a really obnoxious anti abortion guy. i used to say shit like abortion is murder, and what not. then i realized that nothing i say will ever change someones mind, especially with such a polarizing statement like Abortion is Murder. The only thing that can change peoples view in this is science. The greater the advancements in pre natal care the earlier they determine "when life begins." We are now seeing how much more advanced these embryos are with these advancements in science. I think you have kids, if I'm not mistaken, and I think they are older than my son, but I am fairly certain the information given to me about my sons development was earlier than you got it, ie i saw my sons heartbeat at 6 weeks. I'm sure people getting pregnant now are getting some info quicker than i did. As long that keeps happening, it will continue to change peoples mind on "when its a baby" not just jelly.

I kinda joke that I am pro-choice, as in you have teh choice to have sex or not and to practice safe or not. I have felt that if you are mature and responsible enough to have sex, then you can deal with the consequences. I got my ex pregnant, which I never wanted to do. But abortion was never discussed. We looked into adoption and discussed getting back together and raising him. But we dealt with it, has my life become a lot harder, yes. But I also feel he straightened my life out. I feel all the good he has done for me far outweighs any troubles associated with him.


On a side note, the chick in that video is cute.