Posted by tekriter Here are some more fun facts: Iceland and Sweden were amongst the first countries to legalize abortion. The rates reflect something there as well. The abortion rate in Sweden is nearly half that of the US. In 2000, in the USA, the abortion rate was 12 among white women, 31 among Hispanic women and 57 among black women. Do abortion rates have anything to do with education, access to contraception and poverty? The crime rate also dropped drastically 13-15 years after Roe vs Wade indicating that there is a correlation between unwanted children and the crime rate. Incidence of abortion has declined worldwide as access to family planning education and contraceptive services has increased. (both of these are opposed by the catholic church) http://www.guttmac...rnals/3310607.html What about after birth? Look at the infant mortality rate in the USA. Those babies did not choose to have poor health care and poor maternal education (both causes of infant mortality) Deaths per 1000 live births USA 6.3 Iceland 2.9 Canada 4.8 Norway 3.3 Finland 3.7 Denmark 4.4 Sweden 3.2 Netherlands 4.7 What about when the survivors grow up? Homicide rate per year per 100,000 inhabitants USA 5.0 Iceland 0.00 Canada 1.81 Norway .60 Finland 2.5 Denmark 1.01 Sweden 0.89 Netherlands 0.93 Looks like it is 10 x more deadly to live in the Christian USA than in atheist Norway. None of those people chose to be murdered (and all were definitely capable of suffering and coherent thought) Unsafe abortions (like with knitting needles and such) result in 70,000 deaths and 5 million disabilities per year globally. This alone seems to be reason enough to make reducing the need for abortions a priority and making access to safe ones available.

I think your statistics are pretty irrefutable. Its much more deadly to live in diverse USA than any vast majority white European country.

The necessary action is clear, we need to get rid of all the black and brown people.

Posted by Soldat I think your statistics are pretty irrefutable. Its much more deadly to live in diverse USA than any vast majority white European country. The necessary action is clear, we need to get rid of all the black and brown people.

LMAO


No Soldat, its just because it is America. America is the fail :/

Posted by Soldat I think your statistics are pretty irrefutable. Its much more deadly to live in diverse USA than any vast majority white European country. The necessary action is clear, we need to get rid of all the black and brown people.

Well the figures above would suggest that someone agrees with you.

By not providing adequate health care or education to the most at risk groups - black and brown people - you are doing just that.

A black fetus is almost 5 x as likely to be aborted than a white one.

US incarceration rates by race:

U.S. incarceration rates by race, June 30, 2006:

Whites: 409 per 100,000

Latinos: 1,038 per 100,000

Blacks: 2,468 per 100,000

The homicide rate (1996 homicides per 100,000 pop'n)

White male: 7
Black male: 51.5

A black man is 7 times as likely to be murdered than a white man in the USA.

I'm sure there is a correlation between economics, education and healthcare and race.

Posted by tekriter A black man is 7 times as likely to be murdered than a white man in the USA.

Is that because black men are 7 times more religious than white men? That was your original argument right?

Posted by Soldat Is that because black men are 7 times more religious than white men? That was your original argument right?

I think he's working off your response that the solution is to remove "all the black and brown people" at this point. But I'm pretty sure you knew that.

Posted by underdark I think he's working off your response that the solution is to remove "all the black and brown people" at this point. But I'm pretty sure you knew that.

And I'm pointing out the idea that correlation=causation is a fallacy.

His same statistics he is using to argue how the "Christian USA" is so full of violence, death, and teen pregnancy vs atheist Norway could be used to argue black people and latinos are the reason we have so much violence, death, and teen pregnancy.

correlation is not causation, despite how coinvent it is.

correlation=causation is a fallacy.

This is very true.

1) The argument that religious people put forward that science can only deal with questions or reasons and religious institutions are the only source or morality are crushed by the evidence that there is less crime, teenage pregnancy and abortion in less religious states.

Therefore we should look somewhere other than religion for answers about the abortion debate.

2) The other point I was making is that the ethical questions surrounding the abortion debate are more complicated than "it's murder period".


I was only pointing out that the correlation is interesting.


I was not making the point that we should blame blacks or hispanics for anything. Causation, as I think I hinted at above, has more to do with economics, education, and access to health care.

Of course when you taint all of these with religion, then everyone is poorer for it. I think the stats show that, if nothing else, there are some serious social problems in the US.

Posted by tekriter I'm sure there is a correlation between economics, education and healthcare and race.

Indeed there is. I work at a medical school, and I sit in on a lot of lectures. Public health is a big topic here, and this very subject has been mentioned frequently. Another stat I just heard yesterday that 40 percent of all black men in the US have spent a night in jail, and 25 percent have done more serious time.

I would agree that racial tension is probably responsible for a lot of our problems, but I have a unique solutions: whites go back to Europe, blacks go back to Africa, Asians back to Asia and let the Native Americans have their land back.

_{I'm kidding, of course.}

Posted by splumer Indeed there is. I work at a medical school, and I sit in on a lot of lectures. Public health is a big topic here, and this very subject has been mentioned frequently. Another stat I just heard yesterday that 40 percent of all black men in the US have spent a night in jail, and 25 percent have done more serious time. I would agree that racial tension is probably responsible for a lot of our problems, but I have a unique solutions: whites go back to Europe, blacks go back to Africa, Asians back to Asia and let the Native Americans have their land back. I'm kidding, of course.

How far back should they go? Didn't the aboriginal people of North America migrate across a land bridge from Siberia 50,000 — 17,000 years ago?

Mebbe they should go back too. They never thanked us for all the glass beads, reserves and blankets.

Kidding if course. Except the fact that all people are migrants except perhaps a few people around Africa where hominids first appeared.

Posted by tekriter How far back should they go? Didn't the aboriginal people of North America migrate across a land bridge from Siberia 50,000 — 17,000 years ago? Mebbe they should go back too. They never thanked us for all the glass beads, reserves and blankets. Kidding if course. Except the fact that all people are migrants except perhaps a few people around Africa where hominids first appeared.

I'd be willing to let them have North America, since they were the first humans. They'd have to fight the squirrels for it, though.