Omg.

Here are the facts

Abortion= killing something that WILL be a baby in a few weeks or months.

Whether you want to call it a baby or a fetus, it WILL be human when it's born.

So basically in mere seconds (according to most doctors and liberal ding bats) the "fetus" goes from being fair game to a treasured human life after leaving the uterus. So if that is the case, in which it is. You kill the fetus (a blob of tissue inside a woman resembling a human), then remove it from the body. Once it's removed from the body it's now magically a baby human, of which is now dead. How did the baby die? Oh wait, it was killed as a fetus, so it's ok.

It's black and white people, not religious or anything.

Posted by Mr_Fiend It's black and white people, not religious or anything.

No, it is not.

Posted by Soldat I don't count my nation's enemies either, they are also sub human.

Idiotic.

Posted by MutantMandias No, it is not.

Weak

Obviously there is no point in talking about it. I already pointed out that it is not black and white, but you cannot see in anything but black and white, so you apparently couldn't even read what I wrote.

No point.

Still weak

Posted by Mr_Fiend Still weak

you know what else is weak? telling someone what they said is weak over and over again.

not weak = trying to get a discussion opened on why you feel the way you do and see if you can get some back and forth going on. (sounds dirty)

Posted by MutantMandias Sure. But a bit of tissue that cannot live on its own is not a child... ...I do not accept that "life begins when there is a heartbeat" any more than I believe that life begins at birth. Nothing is black and white, least of all life.

Although I disagree, I can understand why you would think a "bit of tissue" is not a child. Lots of people feel that way. But you don't believe life begins at birth!? When do you think that life begins then, if not at conception or birth?

"When does life begin?" is a nonsensical question.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby not weak = trying to get a discussion opened on why you feel the way you do and see if you can get some back and forth going on. (sounds dirty)

I already did that once (see above post), shouldnt have to do it twice. My view was already expressed.

As was mine, where I pointed out that, to any thinking person, with an understanding and appreciation of Life, Life is not black and white.

Posted by MutantMandias As was mine, where I pointed out that, to any thinking person, with an understanding and appreciation of Life, Life is not black and white.

You're either dead or you're not. And it's either a life or it isn't. It's either black or white...

So now you appreciate life? In what form? Do you appreciate life a few months before or after it leaves its mother?

Posted by MutantMandias "When does life begin?" is a nonsensical question.

Okay. What about this question: Do you think you are alive?

I'd like to know since you said you don't even believe life begins at birth.

Do you happen to have any children? If so, at what point did you acknowledge their existence?

ok... i propose a law that prohibits male masturbation. it's prohibited in the bible and you're committing a massacre on something that COULD be a baby.

see what I am getting at? If someone tried that, oh the outcry, but because you're telling a woman what to do, it's all good because after all, they're just women and they don't mean anything. that's what it REALLY comes down to.

Posted by Mr_Fiend You're either dead or you're not. And it's either a life or it isn't. It's either black or white...

Do you honestly think that you are going to get anywhere with this? Life has value, but it does not have only a 1 or a 0 value.

Posted by Mr_Fiend So now you appreciate life? In what form? Do you appreciate life a few months before or after it leaves its mother?

Our valuations of life are vastly different today than they have ever been in the past. I think that a being that can survive on its own, or with basic care, and has potential for a viable future has much more value than one which cannot support itself except with herculean efforts of technology, or with no discernible future quality.

Posted by Trixi Okay. What about this question: Do you think you are alive? I'd like to know since you said you don't even believe life begins at birth. Do you happen to have any children? If so, at what point did you acknowledge their existence?

I am alive. Duh. Winning.

I said that life doesn't begin at birth because there is no single definable point at which life "begins."

I have children, and they were alive to me to a growing degree, starting at the point that we found out she was pregnant, and it still grows every day.

Posted by MutantMandias Idiotic.

Not at all. Why should I look at my enemies as equal to me? If they are equal to me then why would I kill them? They are fighting my country, so they obviously don't agree with my nation, so are wrong, so obviously are inferior ergo warrant death, death which is not murder, because they are not people like me.

Dehumanization, its a beautiful thing!

Posted by MutantMandias Our valuations of life are vastly different today than they have ever been in the past. I think that a being that can survive on its own, or with basic care, and has potential for a viable future has much more value than one which cannot support itself except with herculean efforts of technology, or with no discernible future quality.

Thought so. So a child with mental disabilities and health conditions that make it so that it cannot survive on its own is less valuable than a perfectly healthy child. Gotcha. Now I understand your values.

Abortion IS murder, no matter how you look at it. You have to decide if you can justify it or not. That's the basic premise here. And those who say its a woman and its her body, its still my sperm, so I believe I should also have a final say. If you didn't want a kid, then ya shouldn't have fucked around without protection.

A philosopher's view: http://www.shef.ac...49/16/FetusNew.pdf

Some food for thought because some people need to think more.

Posted by Mr_Fiend Thought so. So a child with mental disabilities and health conditions that make it so that it cannot survive on its own is less valuable than a perfectly healthy child. Gotcha. Now I understand your values.

Yes, I believe that a life which is livable has more value than a life which is unlivable. This is a plain and simple fact and is not altered by the recent changes in the world that cause people to see things as black or white. It does not matter that you attribute a YES or NO value to "life," because that is not the truth, no matter how much you would like to simplify things.

What about love? Is every relationship either love or not love? Is every action either pure or not pure? Is every thought either good or bad? Just because you are trying to define life as on or off does not make it so.

Most importantly, the value of a life is judged best by the one living it. I know that you conservatives might have a hard time with that concept, because you have such disdain for personal responsibility and freedom and allowing people to make their own choices and mistakes. Of course there are people who are depressed and suicidal and can be helped, and can find more value in their lives, but there are also those who cannot. Someone who is terminally ill, in excruciating pain, what right have you to say that they cannot die? I would hope that you agree that you have no right, but maybe you are even more against personal rights than I had thought.

And the thing is, while a fetus obviously isn't going to make a decision that life is not worth living, it has absolutely no value of it's own life. Yes, it has essentially no value. We put the value on it, and that value is meaningless to the fetus. It is all about you, and not at all about the baby. And that does seem to be the standard position of most anti-abortion people: They have absolutely no care for the life of the child at all; it's just that they want to exert their will on the situation out of selfish reasons.

Posted by Oryx A philosopher's view: http://www.shef.ac...49/16/FetusNew.pdf

Word.