Posted by Samurai ok... i propose a law that prohibits male masturbation. it's prohibited in the bible and you're committing a massacre on something that COULD be a baby. see what I am getting at? If someone tried that, oh the outcry, but because you're telling a woman what to do, it's all good because after all, they're just women and they don't mean anything. that's what it REALLY comes down to.

Anyone got a tissue? I need to wipe up this puddle of aborted babies I just made.

Posted by MutantMandias It is all about you, and not at all about the baby. And that does seem to be the standard position of most anti-abortion people: They have absolutely no care for the life of the child at all; it's just that they want to exert their will on the situation out of selfish reasons.

If I were able to exert my will on others, no one would be copulating unless they were ready to deal with the responsibility of giving birth to the child they might potentially conceive. Preventing abortion is all about the baby. As I see it, the only person "exerting their will on the situation out of selfish reasons" is the one who doesn't put the existence of their unborn child before their own.

Posted by Trixi If I were able to exert my will on others, no one would be copulating unless they were ready to deal with the responsibility of giving birth to the child they might potentially conceive. Preventing abortion is all about the baby. As I see it, the only person "exerting their will on the situation out of selfish reasons" is the one who doesn't put the existence of their unborn child before their own.

So, people who don't want kids shouldn't have sex? That's the rule?

If I had been abused by my parents and knew full well that, in all likelihood, I would abuse any children that I had, and have decided that it would be best for the world to never reproduce, then you support restraining me from having sex, if you were able to?

I think she is getting more at, use condoms and birth control. Not that sex is evil. At least that's what I took from it.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby I think she is getting more at, use condoms and birth control. Not that sex is evil. At least that's what I took from it.

X2. MM, you seem to have missed that one pretty big.

Well, no, that's not what she said.

Posted by Trixi If I were able to exert my will on others, no one would be copulating unless they were ready to deal with the responsibility of giving birth to the child they might potentially conceive.

Posted by MutantMandias So, people who don't want kids shouldn't have sex? That's the rule?

I don't personally condone artificial contraception but if someone doesn't want kids, they shouldn't be having sex without using birth control or natural family planning (NFP).

If I had been abused by my parents and knew full well that, in all likelihood, I would abuse any children that I had, and have decided that it would be best for the world to never reproduce, then you support restraining me from having sex, if you were able to?

Adoption is an excellent option!

Since there is no 100% reliable method of birth control, I really do believe women who don't want kids and are not willing to carry an "accidental" pregnancy to term should not be having sex. Ever. Or at least until conception is no longer a possibility (e.g. in the case of hysterectomy, sterilization or menopause)

Posted by Trixi I don't personally condone artificial contraception but if someone doesn't want kids, they shouldn't be having sex without using birth control or natural family planning (NFP). Adoption is an excellent option! Since there is no 100% reliable method of birth control, I really do believe women who don't want kids and are not willing to carry an "accidental" pregnancy to term should not be having sex. Ever. Or at least until conception is no longer a possibility (e.g. in the case of hysterectomy, sterilization or menopause)

I used to know someone who had accidentally killed a kid with his car. He was a safe and responsible driver, but the kid ran out into the street at the worst possible time. So, by your logic, you probably shouldn't drive a car if you are not willing to kill a child, since accidents are always possible. Or at least you shouldn't drive until there are no kids outside.

Posted by MutantMandias I used to know someone who had accidentally killed a kid with his car. He was a safe and responsible driver, but the kid ran out into the street at the worst possible time. So, by your logic, you probably shouldn't drive a car if you are not willing to kill a child, since accidents are always possible. Or at least you shouldn't drive until there are no kids outside.

Pretty much MM. You SHOULDN'T drive a car unless you acknowledge that you could be killed, your friends, your family, or the blind kid down the street. Yeah, its called taking responsibility for the priviledge. And ya know, when kids are present, if your worth a shit, you will slow down and drive more carefully, in like, Oh, I don't know, school zones? Yeah, shit happens in life. If ya gonna fuck, keep in mind you MIGHT have a kid.

Posted by MutantMandias I used to know someone who had accidentally killed a kid with his car. He was a safe and responsible driver, but the kid ran out into the street at the worst possible time. So, by your logic, you probably shouldn't drive a car if you are not willing to kill a child, since accidents are always possible. Or at least you shouldn't drive until there are no kids outside.

Touche sir.

Posted by MutantMandias I used to know someone who had accidentally killed a kid with his car. He was a safe and responsible driver, but the kid ran out into the street at the worst possible time. So, by your logic, you probably shouldn't drive a car if you are not willing to kill a child, since accidents are always possible. Or at least you shouldn't drive until there are no kids outside.

I get what you are saying but I tend to see it more as the parent killed their child by allowing him to run around in the streets in front of cars. Your friend just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, which was not intentional.

Posted by jeepdave Yeah, shit happens in life. If ya gonna fuck, keep in mind you MIGHT have a kid.

Thank god there is a procedure for that.

It would be wrong to simply call abortion murder and then back up your point by adding "period."

When a cop kills a dangerous offender that threatens him - it is not called murder.

Human conception is more complicated than blaming people for pregnancy and forcing them to bear the consequences. Not every pregnancy can be blamed on the one who has to bear the consequences.

Here is the case of a nine year old girl, repeatedly raped by her stepfather and was pregnant with twins.

The church opposes abortion in any case.

http://news.bbc.co...ericas/7930380.stm


The archbishop excommunicated the mother and the doctors.



I think the moral questions about abortion are a little more complicated than just calling it murder.


What about the millions of spontaneous abortions that happen every day in women's bodies? Poor diet can cause this. Is this also murder?


The law allows for the rights of the mother to be considered as well. While concern for unborn children is undoubtedly a nice thing to have, how is it fair to legislate a woman to carry a baby to term - regardless of the circumstances or consequences to her health?

To accord the same legal protections to a collection of cells incapable of life outside the womb, incapable of feeling pain or having a coherent thought as that of a real human capable of immense suffering seems unreasonable.


The argument that those protections should be accorded on the basis of "the potential" to become a human fall flat when you consider that we can clone nearly any organism from the DNA of nearly ANY cell. Brushing your hair could be considered murder in this context. Period.

On a personal level, I make exceptions in cases of rape and if it threatens the life of the mother. But otherwise its murder. Period. Bad example with the cop and the criminal. The criminal made the choice to do something that could end his life. The child only wishes to exist.

Posted by jeepdave On a personal level, I make exceptions in cases of rape and if it threatens the life of the mother. But otherwise its murder. Period. Bad example with the cop and the criminal. The criminal made the choice to do something that could end his life. The child only wishes to exist.

you're so full of shit, you squeak when you walk...

a child doesn't wish to be born. People fuck. they unfortunately make a kid. dear lump, you were made in the backseat of a toyota corolla and are being born to two parents that couldn't afford a no tell motel. It's better to flush the lump than to doom the kid to a life of suckage. You talk about a fetus as if it's a comic book or really bad disney movie. It's a fucking lump. Did you know that a person really doesn't have any concept of their own mortality until they are in their twenties? Seriously. So don't feed me that old nonsense of 'a fetus wants to live'... where the fuck do you live? Fantasyland?

if you people could get around that bullshit known as faith and look at the situation objectively and logically, you wouldn't be spouting the unbelievable HORSESHIT that you do. What i think is hysterical is the fact that most of you who are anti-abortion are so-called conservatives. So that's like talking out both sides of your face on. On one hand, YOU WILL HAVE THIS BABY BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE LORD (!!!!!!!!!!!!) WANTS! But, um, fuck you... were not going to help you pay for it or care fore it BUT THE LORD COMMANDS YOU HAVE THIS FUCKING LUMP!!!!!!!

if you religious nutjobbies could step outside yourselves for just five minutes and listen to how crazy you sound sometimes.

Well, I wouldn't have quite put it that way, but yah, a fetus doesn't want to be born. If you really believe that, it is a sure sign that you are not capable of participating an cogent discussion on the topic.

Posted by jeepdave Yup, so why should tax money go to WAR?

Posted by MutantMandias Well, I wouldn't have quite put it that way, but yah, a fetus doesn't want to be born. If you really believe that, it is a sure sign that you are not capable of participating an cogent discussion on the topic.

Maybe i should've phrased it as 'asked' to be born.
the real question that keeps getting danced around is how can you legislate a biological function. and so far, no one has given me a satisfactory answer.

Posted by jeepdave The child only wishes to exist.

And you know that how? Talk to any aborted fetuses lately?

Posted by dirt And you know that how? Talk to any aborted fetuses lately?

because jesus says so.