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Server Time:
2024-05-11 13:45:24
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 grit1
 
Location: University Campus - Minneapolis, MN
Gender: Male
Got Shear Line?
 |  |  | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 20 on 11/21/2005 7:22 AM >
|  | | | What kind of blanks you should get depends partially on what type of sites you do, and security in your area [ie related to crime level]...
If you do abandonments you'll run into a lot of master padlocks, the occasional ABUS and some American Lock - the latter two are far higher quality then Master. The master blank is referred to almost universally as M1, though there are different keyways for some master padlocks and clones.
If you do live infiltration a lot, you could run into any plethora of locking mechanisms ranging from master padlocks to hand-geometry readers. Realistically, you'll see:
-Kwikset
-Weiser
-Falcon
-Eagle
-Sargent
-Schlage
-BEST
-Medeco
-Yale
-Corbin/Russwi n
Kwikset bump keys are easily made, as they only about 2 keyways, KW1 and their premium key, which is just a little longer. I've never encountered a kwikset premium while exploring. Weiser is about the same.
Schlage has consumer grade locks that use SC1 keyblanks, and are very common on houses owned by discerning lock purchasers. They're harder to pick but fairly easy to make bump keys for. On their professional avenue, however, Schlage has a comprehensive line of high security cylinders employing sidebar secondary locking devices and patented key control, and blanks for these are hard to come by. They market this stuff under Schlage Everest and Schlage Primus, the latter being the most difficult.
Falcon, Eagle and BEST are all SFIC [small format interchangeable core] type of keying systems, usually involving extensive masterkeying infrastructure and easy re-keyability. They use many, many keyways [especially BEST] and some patented key control. Most BEST keyways are available online, but good luck finding a comprehensive selection at any hardware store. Locksmiths dominate the world of SFIC. These interchangeable cores can be found on almost any imaginable locking hardware, from crash-bars to padlocks to bored key-in-knob locksets to heavy-duty mortise locksets to electrical switch locks.
Don't even consider bumping Medeco Biaxial, as the pins need to be at the correct rotational angle in addition to being at the right set-line for shear. If you can get ahold of blanks, Medeco Keymark is bumpable, but the whole point of keymark is patented key control.
Yale consumer locks are the same as Kwikset, basically, but their commercial stuff is higher quality. Y1 is the common universal code for the standard Yale para-centric keyway, but you will find others out there.
Sargent and Corbin/Russwin all have many keyway sections, Sargent employing composite sections for master-keying. Most old Sargent stuff is easy to come by, even in hardware stores, but does offer a patented key control system referred to as Sargent Signature. This technology involves standard Sargent keyways with side milling "dimples". Corbin/Russwin cylinders have about 10 or so keyways, some para-centric, others composite, and as far as I know don't offer much by way of higher security key control. Tolerances are pretty tight in these locks as far as hand picking goes but bumping should be possible.
______
Hardware stores will have varying degrees of skill in making and duplicating keys. The most accurately duplicated keys will be from locksmiths, followed by old-time mom and pop hardware stores where skill is still held by old owners. Regular "ACE" hardware stores will have accurate machines that may not have been calibrated lately, rarely ever code machines. First some vocab: code machines originate keys from depth codes, duplicators take an existing key, trace it and make an exact copy, defects and all. Just like toner copying, a copy of a copy of a copy will not be as good as an original. The most ideal situation for bumping is to have a locksmith or someone with a code cutter cut you a "999" key from code. This can be done on a duplicator, by employing depth and spacing keys that allow you to copy the "9" depth to all 4/5/6/7 pin positions, depending on lock manufacturer.
The hardware stores to avoid for keys employ the "Axxess Plus" duplicating system, which is so simple a monkey could operate it. They use only the cheapest nickel-plated brass blanks, and an automated duplicator prone to errors. These machines are rarely serviced or calibrated and more than likely they will choose the wrong blank anyway.
Sorry for the extremely long post, hope it helped you gain some insight. Enjoy! ~Grit.
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res_novae
  
Location: NoVA
Gender: Male
| | | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 21 on 11/21/2005 2:00 PM >
| | | | This may be blatantly obvious, but I feel it needs to be said...
If you have the funds, you don't really need blanks, just buy the lock and work with the key assigned to it. Its a little less effective (harder to cut accurately), and sometimes costs more, but it also gives you a lock to practice on.
If you need more keys than the ones given, just go make copies.
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Pleiades
 
Location: Halifax
Gender: Male
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 22 on 11/22/2005 3:24 AM >
| | | | Thanks for the help guys, I finally got key 2 working, but it still takes like quite a few bumps to get it.
I took a little more off the shoulder, and as I was trying to take more off of one of the pin positions, I went too far, then I got the idea to fill back in the lost metal with solder, only took a few seconds to add some solder, then I filed it back down to where I wanted it. Since solder is so much softer that brass, the pins deformed it so it works now.
I also found that i need to hit it quite hard, maybe my lock just has strong springs, it doesn't help that I'm using a screwdriver.
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Pravus
Location: Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| |  | | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 23 on 11/22/2005 10:05 AM >
| | | | Posted by Pleiades
I took a little more off the shoulder, and as I was trying to take more off of one of the pin positions, I went too far, then I got the idea to fill back in the lost metal with solder, only took a few seconds to add some solder, then I filed it back down to where I wanted it. Since solder is so much softer that brass, the pins deformed it so it works now.
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another way which was in the video ( I dunno if you watched it or not) was to chop a hot glue gun insert (the solid glue stick) in half long ways and sandwich the key between the two sides melt it together then heat the end and push the key into the keyhole untill it is where the key 'should' be (basically reform the shoulder where the original one was) They will explain it better in the longer video then I did, and it was in the first guys speech
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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Pravus
Location: Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| | | | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 24 on 11/22/2005 12:05 PM >
| | | | does anyone know how much space is between two key settings? (on the key code cutting machines how much space is between pin position 1 and 2) or better yet how much space is between 1-9 and the 'spine' of the key? I am sure a locksmith would (or could) know something like this but not sure if they would be willing to share... Basically how far down should one grind to get to a pin position 10 (which doesn't exist but the vid said it'd would seem to make bumping work better)
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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Pleiades
Location: Halifax
Gender: Male
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 25 on 11/22/2005 2:46 PM >
| | | | I did a super high res scan of the key and a ruler and measured the distance from the center of one pin to the next, I got exactly 4mm.
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grit1
Location: University Campus - Minneapolis, MN
Gender: Male
Got Shear Line?
| | | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 26 on 11/22/2005 3:07 PM >
| | | | Posted by Pravus
does anyone know how much space is between two key settings? (on the key code cutting machines how much space is between pin position 1 and 2) or better yet how much space is between 1-9 and the 'spine' of the key? I am sure a locksmith would (or could) know something like this but not sure if they would be willing to share... Basically how far down should one grind to get to a pin position 10 (which doesn't exist but the vid said it'd would seem to make bumping work better)
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Depth and spacing are manufacturer and product line dependent ... when I get a chance I'll see if I can dig up a link to a website I've seen that lists a whole bunch of depths and spacings...~Grit.
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J Peterman
   
Location: Victoria B.C.
I'm going hunting for mysteries, cover me.
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 27 on 12/18/2005 8:00 PM >
| | | | Anyone in B.C. or even Canada know of anyplaces which sell lockpick supplies from a store front (or back). I dont have a credit card nor am I a big fan of money orders.
I'm going hunting for mysteries, cover me. |
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MindHacker
Location: Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 28 on 12/19/2005 7:32 AM >
|  | | | P A Y P A L
I love it. You can always make a set. Theres a thousand guides on the internet but basically: A bike spoke/street sweeper bristle: one for a tension wrench (bend like a "L") and one for a pick (bend/file/dremel like a, um, "1"? Straight and bending up at the end). My backups in my wallet are homemade, and they work. Not well, but thats cause im lazy.
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
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mavrix
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Satanic Evidence Above
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 29 on 12/21/2005 5:46 AM >
| | | | wow,
nice skeleton key guys. thanks im gona get one.
Picture Evidence of Satanism Above |
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Redknight
Location: Missouri
Gender: Male
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 30 on 12/21/2005 5:19 PM >
| | | | I think Im going to try this for some Master padlocks, alot of sites Ive been to have a couple of them thrown all over the place, so If I can make a bumpkey for all those padlocks, it make many possibilities.
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grit1
Location: University Campus - Minneapolis, MN
Gender: Male
Got Shear Line?
| | | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 31 on 12/21/2005 7:45 PM >
| | | | Posted by Redknight
I think Im going to try this for some Master padlocks, alot of sites Ive been to have a couple of them thrown all over the place, so If I can make a bumpkey for all those padlocks, it make many possibilities.
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Just so you know regular 4 pin master padlocks are some of the easiest pin tumbler locks out there to pick ... when I'm exploring they are not obstacles, and picking them, even raking them is probably going to be faster than bumpkeys...
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Mark
Very Noble Donor
Location: South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 32 on 12/21/2005 8:59 PM >
| | | | Id like to see some working bumpkeys around. I dont think I am going to make them right.
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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Redknight
Location: Missouri
Gender: Male
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 33 on 12/21/2005 11:15 PM >
| | | | ...but I'm what you call, a picking noob  . Ive never picked anything before and dont have the tools either. I should prolly give it a try someday though.
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JimBoylan
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania, U. S. of A.
Gender: Male
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 34 on 12/30/2005 6:07 PM >
| | | | | Posted by grit1BEST keyways, good luck finding a comprehensive selection at any hardware store. |
Star Lock & Key, Manufacturer in Brooklyn, N.Y. made a blank for multiple Best keyways. I think it was their number 7BE13M. They're not in the phone book any more, does that mean I should look in our location database, instead?
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JimBoylan
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania, U. S. of A.
Gender: Male
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 35 on 12/30/2005 10:32 PM >
| | | | | Posted by Pravus: how much space is between pin position 1 and 2) or better yet how much space is between 1-9 and the 'spine' of the key? Basically how far down should one grind to get to a pin position 10 |
HPC in Shiller Park or Rolling Meadows, Ill. is one publisher of "Depth & Space" books which tell the dimensions of cut keys. By the way, I think BEST has 11 depths, numbered 0 through 10! 'spine' may equal "shoulder".
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Mark
Very Noble Donor
Location: South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 36 on 12/30/2005 10:54 PM >
| | | | Exactly how does one understand these depths etc.
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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JimBoylan
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania, U. S. of A.
Gender: Male
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 37 on 12/30/2005 11:12 PM >
| | | | That's what the book, or manufacturers' literature is for. It tells you the dimensions, vertical and horizontal to go with the numbers of the depths. A "Code Book" tells the depth numbers and sometimes the key blank for a code number. Master Brand original keys and locks have code numbers. Dexter and Kwikset original keys often have depth numbers stamped on them.
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Mark
Very Noble Donor
Location: South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 38 on 12/31/2005 12:43 AM >
| | | | Posted by JimBoylan
That's what the book, or manufacturers' literature is for. It tells you the dimensions, vertical and horizontal to go with the numbers of the depths. A "Code Book" tells the depth numbers and sometimes the key blank for a code number. Master Brand original keys and locks have code numbers. Dexter and Kwikset original keys often have depth numbers stamped on them.
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Where on earth do you find this information?
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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MindHacker
Location: Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 39 on 12/31/2005 5:56 AM >
| | | | Typically you have to order the bookset or, nowadays, cdrom from the lock manufacturer or a distributing house. If you just want one its probably not worth it.
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
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