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 bryjorrin
 |  | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 100 on 10/20/2007 3:57 PM >
|  | | | I just bought some depth keys.
I heard somewhere that they easily can be modifed to become bump keys. How do I do this?
Also, should the last tooth be longer than the rest on some of them?
Here is where I heard that depth keys can be made into bump keys, under "laws".
http://www.ezpicki...keys-easy-picking/
EDIT: Can this be used to make a bump key?:
http://www.lockpic...IEWPROD&ProdID=628
[last edit 10/20/2007 5:38 PM by bryjorrin - edited 1 times]
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Zehuti
Location: Fremont, California
Gender: Male
Now if I just had a map.. ahh screw it, left it is.
| |  |  |  | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 101 on 10/20/2007 8:48 PM >
|  | | | Posted by bryjorrin
I just bought some depth keys.
I heard somewhere that they easily can be modifed to become bump keys. How do I do this?
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I did it simply with a file, you can use a vice to hold it if that helps you, I didn't though and it worked fairly well. With depth keys, all you really need to do (I think) is file a little bit off of the shoulder and tip. Be careful though, if the lock is a type where the back of the lock stops the key rather than the shoulder, you can ruin the lock fairly easily.
Posted by bryjorrin
Also, should the last tooth be longer than the rest on some of them?
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On all of my keys, except for my first one that didn't work, I left the first tooth bigger, that seems to help a bit. It could be different for different types of locks though.
It could, if you do it carefully I suppose, though you might have to resort to a little filing of the shoulder and tip. Personally, I think it's a bit too much money to spend on it if you're just trying to make a bump key.
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slobrummer
 
Location: Sacramento, CA / San Luis Obispo, CA
Gender: Male
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 102 on 10/23/2007 7:21 AM >
| | | | Depth keys usually mean a set of keys, one cut entirely with one depth whereas you only need one of the keys from the set cut to the lowest depth. (But that's usually what they sell on ebay is the lowest since bump keys are illegal there now). I'm pretty well versed in Best master key systems and general locksmithing but haven't spent a huge time on bumping so correct me if I'm wrong but you might want to take a tiny bit more off of the deepest normal cut for your bump key.
Regardless of whether I'm correct on that, a depth key needs to be modified on the shoulder or tip depending on the type of stop for the lock in order for it to be usable as a bump. If we're talking Best style keys, the tip acts as the stop (preventing the key from going in farther then it's supposed to,) whereas most other keys, especially lower security/common keys like Kwikset use a shoulder stop. You file a little off of the stop so that the key can be bumped into the lock, causing the pins to jump up and set, as if picking when they go further along the key and hit that angled part instead of aligning with the cuts properly. I don't know of any specific sources available online that will provide you with quick details on whether your key is a shoulders top kind or a tip stop. Most are shoulder.
[last edit 10/23/2007 7:24 AM by slobrummer - edited 2 times]
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slobrummer
Location: Sacramento, CA / San Luis Obispo, CA
Gender: Male
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 103 on 10/23/2007 7:34 AM >
| | | | Posted by bryjorrin
Also, should the last tooth be longer than the rest on some of them?
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I have not ever heard of this.
Yes, it can although that's pretty basic and they're using it on Kwikset style keys. Every type of key has a different set of measurements specifying where each of the depths are. That seems to be more designed for Kwikset though I could be wrong, and of course could be modified. You need to figure out the depth for whatever key blank you're using in order to cut to that depth. (Helps to have a key micrometer to measure it.) Additionally, while not as huge a deal, the angle/width of the actual cut varies by key too so the thickness of that might be more or less then what you need depending on the keys.
The major security in traditional pin & tumbler lock systems right now relies on patented key blanks that are hard to get. If you can't easily get the key blank, you can't bump it (or at least someone not very determined/skilled can't, it's a physical system, so there is always a way.) Even Medeco biaxial locks have been broken down to a set of 12 bump keys that'll open most any lock of that type. So with Best keys, Best has patents so that other companies can't produce certain keyways (keyways are the shape of the keyhole) so that you can't just walk into a hardware store and buy an Ilco knock off of it. You have to order it directly through them, and they know who they're supplying to and what institutions use their systems. If you have to actually cast the key yourself, that deters a lot of people from ending up with copies of keys they're not supposed to and having bump keys for that system.
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Darius502
Gender: Male
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 104 on 6/28/2008 12:49 AM >
| | | | I must say, this is one of the easiest, coolest things I have seen in a long while! I made one to match my front door lock (In about 10 minutes) and I can open it about every 2 to 5 hits now. I used a Dremel tool and a marker to "map out" the notches and it took me about 10 minutes to cut it out. It really blew my mind!!
I just had to throw in my two cents.
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d1skr33t
Location: Vancouver, BC
Gender: Male
| | | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 105 on 7/30/2008 11:24 AM >
| | | | Sorry for bringing back a month dead thread but i have a quick question.
I know bump keys can eventually wear out but i'm curious how fast this happens. Say if i order or make some how many "bumps" would you estimate it would be good for?
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MindHacker
 
Location: Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 106 on 7/30/2008 1:28 PM >
| | | | Posted by d1skr33t
Sorry for bringing back a month dead thread but i have a quick question.
I know bump keys can eventually wear out but i'm curious how fast this happens. Say if i order or make some how many "bumps" would you estimate it would be good for?
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A long long time. Unless you start bumping your personal doors open instead of using a key. Really, I'd be more concerned about wearing a particular lock out by bumping it too much than wearing out the key.
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
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d1skr33t
Location: Vancouver, BC
Gender: Male
| | | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 107 on 7/30/2008 10:24 PM >
| | | | | A long long time. Unless you start bumping your personal doors open instead of using a key. Really, I'd be more concerned about wearing a particular lock out by bumping it too much than wearing out the key. |
Ah great. I had read on lockpicking101 that they wore out but no one replied!
Anyways I have ordered the 11 key set off of [[url]www.bumpkey.us[/url] They are not a bad price about 3.50 a key and then a bit cheaper in the packages just shipping to canada or BC at least is 21$ USD which increases the price quite a bit.
When they arrive I will let anyone curious know how they are.
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jake baker
 
Location: toronto
life is short stunt it
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 108 on 10/22/2008 9:21 PM >
| | | | i made my own they work alright im shure they will get better i cant believe it actually works i need lots of keys now
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jake baker
Location: toronto
life is short stunt it
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 109 on 10/22/2008 9:22 PM >
| | | | also i find its not loud at all u barely have to tap it
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Wilk
Location: NYC
Gender: Male
| | | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 110 on 10/31/2008 12:30 AM >
| | | | Not to be a buzzkill or anything. Just want everyone to know that getting caught with a bumpkey in most states is a felony.
Ready for liftoff
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junkyard
Location: LaCrosse, WI
Gender: Male
Strategic Beer Command where the metal hits the meat.
| | | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 111 on 11/5/2008 6:58 AM >
| | | | It is and it's not. I have every reason to own such burgurlary tools. I own a towing company. It is my job to get cars unlocked. It is perfectly legal for me to own such equipment. Now to use it for entering a building, would be......not good. If anyone here is a locksmith, you have a legitimate reason to have these things on your person. But Locksmith or not, creeping around abandoned buildings, inside the fence, they're not going to buy it. And talking about this shit in public, while totally condoned by this site, still isn't a great idea. There are other venues. I've been warned about certain things, but lockpicking is in the clear here. But as always, just because something's legal doesn't always mean you should do it.....
I drink gasoline for breakfeast and beer for dinner!
Any problem can be licked with a case of beer and a few sticks of dynamite.
Strategic Beer Command ruling the desert since 1995 http://www.strategic-beer-command.com |
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S.F.I.C.
Location: Northern California
Gender: Male
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 112 on 11/28/2008 11:32 PM >
| | | | Excellent thread...not too preachy.
I wanted to comment on Best lock systems as I've got several years experience (side product of my job) with them. The spacing is standard but there are three depth sets called "A2", "A3" and "A4". A2 is what you'll encounter 85% of the time with A4 being 13% and A3 2% (rough figures of course). Each one has a differing "deepest cut" so it's possible a confirmed Best bump key cut for A2 depths not working in some locks. I haven't worked with institutional lock systems but in many cases a University would probably want to be sneakier and use a less common depth.
Here are the deepest depths for those interested:
Sys Code Cut
A2 9 0.206
A3 6 0.210
A4 5 0.213
It looks like very little difference but Best locks are machined with very tight tolerances.
Regarding being rough on bumping with Best... the newer cores have a removable tip-stop clip that could be tweaked really easily. The older core models use a thicker riveted cover that is much harder to bend (though I see someone managed to). The way you tell the difference is by the lettering on the core (unless the customer requests different). The newer cores have a B without the vertical bar so it looks like a curvy sideways M or W. The older cores have a more Times Roman type font.
Hopefully this help some of you. Besides Schlage and Yale, Best are some of the most common commercial lock systems because of the ease of rekeying and the wealth of lock housing types. Once you get to know more about them you'll find out about the "Control Key" which is just like any other key but cut specifically for one reason, to pull the core.
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CaptainJack
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 113 on 1/2/2009 2:24 PM >
| | | | I tried bumping a few years ago and had marginal results. On my test locks I was getting them to open maybe once in 100 tries. This thread has given me some renewed interest in giving it a try.
All pictures taken with Nikon P6000 point and shoot, Handhled |
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hatsumi
| | | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 114 on 1/4/2009 10:03 PM >
| | | | Posted by MindHacker
A long long time. Unless you start bumping your personal doors open instead of using a key. Really, I'd be more concerned about wearing a particular lock out by bumping it too much than wearing out the key.
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http://www.multipi...g/36100/x36100.php
this is a great site....so many toys, so little time
drainasaurus maximus |
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Cochiseg
Location: Canada
Gender: Male
Scary rabbit, isn't it?
| | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 115 on 4/7/2009 8:36 PM >
| | | | Posted by grit1
Just so you know regular 4 pin master padlocks are some of the easiest pin tumbler locks out there to pick ... when I'm exploring they are not obstacles, and picking them, even raking them is probably going to be faster than bumpkeys...
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I don't know why, but to me they are really hard. I have no problem picked most deadbolts, but padlocks, it gives me a hard time. maybe if i had a more complete set of tension wrenches, i might open them easier. all i have right now is a bent street bristle...
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d1skr33t
Location: Vancouver, BC
Gender: Male
| | | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 116 on 4/11/2009 8:56 PM >
| | | | Just wanted to give an update on my bumpkey experience!
The first time they arrived at my door it was in my friends name and my brother turned the package away. We contacted the company and they agreed to reship them for a very reasonable fee and were very friendly about it.
The second time customs got suspicious that i was order so many house keys to my address and sent them to local police (I love in BC Canada) so the police called me pretending to be the delivery company asking when would be a good time to deliver but it was in my friends name so he waited at my house for them to come and they never did still thinking it was the shipping company.
Then the police called and said the truck they were being shipped on had been broken int and they had our package so my friend goes down and what do ya know charged with possession of burglary tools.
To summarize be careful depending where you are ordering from.
Great company was very friendly and cooperative im sad i couldnt actually get their product but oh well my friend and I didnt end up getting charged so im thankful
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\/adder
Location: DunkarooLand
Gender: Male
I'm the worst of the best but I'm in this race.
| | | Re: How to make bumpkeys and open 75-80% of all locks
<Reply # 117 on 4/11/2009 11:12 PM >
| | | | Posted by d1skr33t
To summarize be careful depending where you are ordering from.
Great company was very friendly and cooperative im sad i couldnt actually get their product but oh well my friend and I didnt end up getting charged so im thankful
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Depends on your your local laws.
I went to google and look google redirected me to UER.
Google sent me here: http://www.lockpic...tyoflockpicks.html
Who took there info from here: http://www.uer.ca/...d=1&threadid=39479
"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis... |
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