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Posted by tekriter most of the opposition to it has less to do with common sense and sympathy for victims that it does with racism, ignorance and xenophobia. It's a little embarrassing.

and the understatement of the year award goes too.....

Posted by tekriter What if you substituted "miracle" with "publicity stunt" or "merketing campaign"?

Is there a difference?

It seems theoretically possible to be both a Christian (believe in the divinity of Jesus) and a Muslim (following the 5 pillars of Islam and believe the Koran was dictate to mohamed). Is there any reason why you couldn't? I mean, assuming you went in for those sorts of things. I suppose you could say that the Bible, since it was written by people, is imperfect, and that the Koran (assuming Mo made no mistakes in his dictation), being the verbatim word of God, supersedes the Bible where the two are in conflict.

Opinions?

_{Wow! A religious topic on the religion board!}

Posted by splumer Is there a difference? It seems theoretically possible to be both a Christian (believe in the divinity of Jesus) and a Muslim (following the 5 pillars of Islam and believe the Koran was dictate to mohamed). Is there any reason why you couldn't? I mean, assuming you went in for those sorts of things. I suppose you could say that the Bible, since it was written by people, is imperfect, and that the Koran (assuming Mo made no mistakes in his dictation), being the verbatim word of God, supersedes the Bible where the two are in conflict. Opinions? Wow! A religious topic on the religion board!

Supposedly both are the word of god and are infallible. Whereas the Torah is free to interpret. So in that they are in conflict. That said, in Islamic societies in the past, Christians and Muslims lived side by side. The Islamic view was that Christians did indeed share the same god, but were inferior in faith. Christians were second class citizens. So now Christians are being hypocrites because they treat Muslims as second class citizens. While it is true that Islam has had a violent past, and in some cases violent present, that just makes them like every other religion. Same amount of misogyny, of self righteousness, the same amount of violence. The people who disagree with the building of this center are small minded bigots. Personally, I would love to see Judaism, Christianity, and Islam erased from history. That won't happen. So those of us with a head on our shoulders accept that they exist, and decide to only concern ourselves with our own lives. It is madness to try and change people.

Muslims need to realize they would be much more accepted in the US if terrorist attacks on Americans weren't carried out almost exclusively by Muslims.

People in New York remember 9/11, they lot friends, family, maybe even were at ground zero themselves. Plenty of Americans have seen their friends and family killed or wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan. Thats going to bring up some bad blood towards muslims.

Sucks for them, but thats the nature of the beast. We are at war and our enemies happen to fight in the name of Islam. In WWII we fought Germans and Japanese, which made being a Japanese or German American considerably harder and left them subject to racism at the time and even long after. People don't just forget and let go of the deads memory or forget who was responsible for their death. People are angry, and they go take it out on those they associate with the responsible. Its the way shit is, its the way its always been deal with it.

Posted by Soldat222 Its the way shit is, its the way its always been deal with it.

I agree. Fuckin' niggers shoulda just accepted slavery.

Posted by dirt It is madness to try and change people.

No, it is not.

As MM pointed out, the civil rights movement changed many people's attitudes and lives.

Drinking and driving is not reasonable activity, yet it used to be acceptable until the social cost became to great and peoples attitudes were changed.

Christians used to burn witches when there was a bad harvest.

Many african males believe that showering after sex, or having sex with a virgin will protect them from the HIV. Should those of us that know better try to change their minds?

Organized religion is unreasonable and will disappear, in time, under the crush of reason.

When the social cost of islam (or any other intolerant religion) becomes too great people will move to deal with it.

I'm not sure that it is madness to fight unreason and religious intolerance.



and one more thing, there is no such thing as a private belief. Everything you believe, reasonable or not, affects how you act and interact with others.

It is time to begin to replace religious intolerance with a humanistic conversational intolerance for unreasonable ideas.

It is time to begin to replace religious intolerance with a humanistic conversational intolerance for unreasonable ideas.

Agreed.

Proving religion is like proving an emotion. You can't but that doesn't mean you don't feel it.

Posted by splumer Agreed.

Like this:

http://toronto.ctv...100824?hub=Toronto


Apart from my sheer surprise that someone could use the bible to inspire hate, it is inspiring that there are people willing to stand up and say no.

Posted by jeepdave Proving religion is like proving an emotion. You can't but that doesn't mean you don't feel it.

You might just have indigestion, or it could be wishful thinking.

I'm sure it is inspiring to believe that you will survive your own death, but there is no good reason to believe that, not is it compatible with living together with one another.

Posted by tekriter You might just have indigestion, or it could be wishful thinking. I'm sure it is inspiring to believe that you will survive your own death, but there is no good reason to believe that, not is it compatible with living together with one another.

No good reason to believe I won't. And I can live fine with anyone I choose to. But the choice is mine. Its a big planet, I don't have to live with those I don't wish to.

Posted by MutantMandias I agree. Fuckin' niggers shoulda just accepted slavery.

Not at all the same thing but good job?

Posted by jeepdave Proving religion is like proving an emotion. You can't but that doesn't mean you don't feel it.

You can't prove that its hot outside.

Posted by earthworm You can't prove that its hot outside.

His kind aren't interested in the proof/evidence...

Posted by Soldat222 Not at all the same thing but good job?

I was just so amused by your point that Americans are upset at Muslims because terrorists are not just standing still and dying when we shoot at them.

Posted by earthworm You can't prove that its hot outside.

Your correct. I can measure the temp. But hot is a relative term. Its down right "cold" compared to the sun.

Posted by jukebox fuckup His kind aren't interested in the proof/evidence...

Your intolerance is showing Juke

Posted by MutantMandias I was just so amused by your point that Americans are upset at Muslims because terrorists are not just standing still and dying when we shoot at them.

And Muslims are for some reason upset that Americans arent super happy they keep attacking us and killing their friends.

Posted by jeepdave Your correct. I can measure the temp. But hot is a relative term. Its down right "cold" compared to the sun.

You couldn't prove that there is a mosque at ground zero.