Posted by Mr_Fiend Yeah, you have half the story. You're right, muslims go back to Ishmeal, but the Jews and Christians come from Isaac, of whom Ismael hated. Ismael also hated Abraham and everything he stood for, including his god, the God of Abraham. So Ishmael went off and did his own thing. Look it up! Mohammad created islam out of hate towards the Jews and Christians and their god.

No, you might want to look it up somewhere other than whatever ignorant hate site you get your information from.

Your version doesn't even make sense. He hated one god, so he made up a different one by using the same source beliefs?

Ishmael was royally and unfairly fucked by your god (but more so by his shitty dad). And since everything I have heard from you seems to be actions motivated by hate, I guess it's understandable that you would go to the hate place again.

But you know what? Your Bible actually tells a different story...


Genesis 21:17-20
But God heard the boy’s voice. The angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and asked her, “What is the matter, Hagar? Don’t be afraid, for God has heard the boy’s voice right where he is crying. Get up! Help the boy up and hold him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation.” Then God enabled Hagar to see a well of water. She went over and filled the skin with water, and then gave the boy a drink.
God was with the boy as he grew. He lived in the wilderness and became an archer. He lived in the wilderness of Paran. His mother found a wife for him from the land of Egypt.

Posted by tekriter Or demonic possession could simply be a myriad of commonly understood neurological disorders that must have appeared pretty scary to iron age desert dwellers without MRIs.

like tourettes and schizophrenia

Posted by Mr_Fiend That's very dangerous for you, because if you dont have a definite way to live, you are easily deceived by the next greatest thing that comes along.

Oh. You mean like how Christian beliefs change over time, depending on the current cultural norms?

Posted by maypost Just for the record, it is disrespectful language like this that makes it impossible for me to take you at all seriously. Not that you will understand hat I'm trying to say... but there it is.

For the record, I am not having a discussion with you.

You have yet to add anything of substance, let alone enough to understand hat.

Also, the idea that people are inhabited by demons or that people deserve torture and disaster gets the respect it deserves.

Posted by splumer Very interesting. I'd like to hear more about it. Not to make fun of you, but I'm seriously interested in what people believe are demonic episodes.

Well first off, I dont think I was being "possesed", since I was close to death. I was seriously sick for weeks, I couldnt think straight because of a severe fever (105 degrees) I had for days. I had a serious infection/bad reaction to medicine. I suffered for weeks. And when I was so week and in a very vulnerable near death state, I felt the presence of death and a malevolent thing pulling on me in a way I could not describe. It was frightening on an extreme level. I beleive my prayers prevented whatever it was from latching onto me. And when I say it tried to over come me, I mean it tried to kill me and take me away from God. That was a time when I was living a "secular" lifestyle, and allowed such things to happen to me, opening the door to that stuff.

I knew that evil and Satan was real after that, 100% convinced. My beliefs didnt feel real until then. I knew the intentions of both sides, one wants to save me, the other wants to kill me. And I know thats why the world is the way it is. Good vs Evil, and we're caught in between.


SO! Back on subject. Things happen because they are allowed to happen. God has told us how to stop it and live. The information is there, you just have to decide to use it or not.

Posted by MutantMandias And since everything I have heard from you seems to be actions motivated by hate, I guess it's understandable that you would go to the hate place again.

Hahahaha! What??? Who do I hate? Who does God hate? Answer, no one. I TRY to love everyone, and God DOES love everyone.

Posted by Mr_Fiend SO! Back on subject. Things happen because they are allowed to happen. God has told us how to stop it and live. The information is there, you just have to decide to use it or not.

so if everyone in the world became christians there would be no more natural disasters? no more tornadoes or hurricanes or earthquakes? the wind would stop blowing and it would stop raining and the earths plates would stop moving? hell the earth should stop then too right? if everyone became christians i think we should be entitled to have an earth size moon bounce!

Posted by Mr_Fiend I beleive my prayers prevented whatever it was from latching onto me. And when I say it tried to over come me, I mean it tried to kill me and take me away from God.

What exactly leads you to believe it was prayer and not, say, anti-biotics?


This is one of those causation fallacies we were talking about yesterday.

Prayer then being okay does not mean prayer did anything for you.


In fact it works exactly as much, statistically, than no prayer at all.

Why would god heal you and not amputees? Not one, ever.

Maybe it's because prayer had nothing to do with it, but it is comforting to believe that someone is tending the light at the end of the tunnel - wishful thinking.

Posted by Mr_Fiend Hahahaha! What??? Who do I hate? Who does God hate? Answer, no one. I TRY to love everyone, and God DOES love everyone.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. What I intended to say was that you seem to attribute every action that other people take as driven by hate.

But, nice dodge on the actual topic.

Posted by Mr_Fiend I was seriously sick for weeks, I couldnt think straight because of a severe fever (105 degrees) I had for days. I had a serious infection/bad reaction to medicine.

Oh. Well. I really don't want to be offensive, but I cannot think of any other way to say this: That's about the stupidest reason for believing something that I've ever heard. I have taken some incredible journeys while feverish too, but you realize that's because your brain isn't functioning correctly, don't you?

Proving my God exist is like trying to prove an emotion. I cannot do it, but it doesn't mean emotions do not exist.


Please prove an emotion. Oh, you can hook me up to a machine, get data from brain waves and electrical impulses, and say "look, I proved the emotion" but if I'm hooked up to the same machine and walk into a church and the same thing happens then it would not be "proof" according to the same science.


Basically, I'm tired of arguing about this, its always funny how most atheist are more convicted in their belief, and it is a belief, than most christians. Sad really.

Posted by tekriter What exactly leads you to believe it was prayer and not, say, anti-biotics?

I never took them. It wasnt that I was sick and was "healed", its that I was having a "near death experience" with something evil and dark, and THAT is what I believe saved me. I was still sick as a dog after that "event".

Posted by tekriter Why would god heal you and not amputees? Not one, ever.

No one that I know of has that kind of faith to defy your own eyes and heal and amputee. But that's another conversation, of which I'm pretty sure we already talked about.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby so if everyone in the world became christians there would be no more natural disasters?

Doesnt matter, there is still a curse, and sin in the world. Just because you're a christian, doesnt mean the devil is gonna go away, in fact, he's gonna double his efforts to destroy you. But what I can tell you, is someday people will find out what will happen to the world when all the christians leave. Then literally all hell will break lose, because no one will be here to keep it in check.

Posted by MutantMandias Oh. Well. I really don't want to be offensive, but I cannot think of any other way to say this: That's about the stupidest reason for believing something that I've ever heard. I have taken some incredible journeys while feverish too, but you realize that's because your brain isn't functioning correctly, don't you?

Look, I was in my right mind, I know that for sure. I'm aware your brain can overheat if your fever is high, but I know when I'm myself and when I'm not. I KNOW I felt something dark around my soul. It was an emotional response, not physical or anything. It gave me all the confirmation I needed. And I was ALMOST as stubborn as you. Sometimes people need a wake up call.

Edit: was that an attempt to be somewhat sympathetic towards my feelings? That kind of makes me smile

Posted by Mr_Fiend Look, I was in my right mind, I know that for sure. I'm aware your brain can overheat if your fever is high, but I know when I'm myself and when I'm not. I KNOW I felt something dark around my soul. It was an emotional response, not physical or anything. It gave me all the confirmation I needed. And I was ALMOST as stubborn as you. Sometimes people need a wake up call.

LOL

Posted by Mr_Fiend Doesnt matter, there is still a curse, and sin in the world. Just because you're a christian, doesnt mean the devil is gonna go away, in fact, he's gonna double his efforts to destroy you.

so devil is the reason for earthquakes? it has nothing to do with the earths plates shifting?

Posted by jeepdave Proving my God exist is like trying to prove an emotion. I cannot do it, but it doesn't mean emotions do not exist. Please prove an emotion. Oh, you can hook me up to a machine, get data from brain waves and electrical impulses, and say "look, I proved the emotion" but if I'm hooked up to the same machine and walk into a church and the same thing happens then it would not be "proof" according to the same science.

What? What does that have to do with the Japanese deserving a disaster? it doesn't even make any sense.

Posted by jeepdave Basically, I'm tired of arguing about this,

Why do you keep doing it then? Why not go do something else?

Posted by tekriter What? What does that have to do with the Japanese deserving a disaster? it doesn't even make any sense. Why do you keep doing it then? Why not go do something else?

Oh you can kiss the whitest part of my ass Tekky, what does any of this have to do with the disaster in Japan. You make little sense, I use to respect you but all you do is google shit and put it in your own words, your a hateful arrogant fuckfart and I don't really give a shit, but you don't own this board. I will come in here and toss around my 2 cent any time I feel like it.

You do not have all the answers, no matter if you think you do or not.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby so devil is the reason for earthquakes? it has nothing to do with the earths plates shifting?

The earth along with everything else is dying. Has been since the fall of man. The earth is under a curse. -in the bible too. It no longer functions like God had planned it to.

Posted by jeepdave Oh you can kiss the whitest part of my ass Tekky, what does any of this have to do with the disaster in Japan. You make little sense, I use to respect you but all you do is google shit and put it in your own words, your a hateful arrogant fuckfart and I don't really give a shit, but you don't own this board.

Hmmm, maybe hate is the cause of people's actions.

with a 105F fever, your brain was swelling... you're lucky you didn't see little leprechauns dancing on your face...

face it, unless you can produce a miracle out of your ass (not a miraculous ass, because I've seen them), or jesus on a handcart, or a lost video of the great flood, your great and powerful god is sucking canal water.

most of the so-called miracles were horseshit.
most of the so-called demonic possessions and so on were probably cases of schizophrenia, tourettes, mental retardation, etc. Jesus was probably a traveling candle/snake oil salesman, or at very best a human imbued with some manner of charisma.

and this goes for the rest of the horseshit religions on this damn ball. you can't prove faith to me. unless god shows up right here right now, it's bullshit.

It's like my mom and her babbling biblical bullshit... the other night she had me so pissed over this shit that I was about take her precious doorstop and set it on fire. "I'm praying for you..." BAH! Save it. And the worst part is, i always considered my mother an intelligent person.

For fucks sake! What the fuck kind of god wants sheep for followers? fuck that shit. if i was inclined to believe in god, i'd want a god with balls, i'd want a god that would show up to a party and tell it's followers, 'that's right bitches, i am the divine one. where's the party?"

You know what would do us all some good? Splorin' some shit together. And I dont mean being butt buddies either. Maybe ya'll start to appreciate my "craziness", if you can vent your atheistic views to my face.